14 hours ago, Bruan said:

My biggest problem with Ishamael in the dreams isn’t his appearance. It’s more the fact he’s been reduced to a jump-scare monster out of some B horror flick. His appearance isn’t what made him scary. His dialogue did.

This is true. But the repetitiveness of his dialogue got annoying for me. 

Remember in EotW, Ba'alzy doesn't know it's Rand at first either. At the beginning, all the kids are having dreams and its unclear how long they continue to do so, since we don't get any of their POV to speak of.

 

I think we are going to get some scary dialogue in this coming episode. And Ba'alzy, (or Ishy or Moridin - it will be interesting to see how much of the re-naming stuff they do) will be established as the antagonist. At least that's my prediction.

10 hours ago, Terry05 said:

When the camera pans up in the Hall room I think that is where it doesn’t look great imo 

This! It looked like a video game to me, and not realistic at all..

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is true. But the repetitiveness of his dialogue got annoying for me. 

Remember in EotW, Ba'alzy doesn't know it's Rand at first either. At the beginning, all the kids are having dreams and its unclear how long they continue to do so, since we don't get any of their POV to speak of.

 

I think we are going to get some scary dialogue in this coming episode. And Ba'alzy, (or Ishy or Moridin - it will be interesting to see how much of the re-naming stuff they do) will be established as the antagonist. At least that's my prediction.

 

I think that at least the dream with Ishy breaking the mouse could Have been put on the screen. The show desperately needs a real antagonist 

Giving Ishy a few lines would have been nice, instead of the quick pan to him then end of dream.  It was more like a horror movie attempt to scare.

8 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is true. But the repetitiveness of his dialogue got annoying for me. 

Agreed.  The dream scene with the rats and then seeing the rats in the morning was great.  After that it just got boring.  One of only a few issues I have with the books.   Aes Sedai plotting about plotting is another.

For all of the posters on here who are hardcore book fans and are criticizing the show and actively finding things to dislike about it, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other hard-core book fans who don't post here but are expressing their overall positive thoughts and feelings on the show elsewhere, so there is nowhere close to a universal dislike of the show amongst the hardcore reader community.

 

There isn't even a universal dislike of the show amongst the people who do post here.

4 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

 

I think that at least the dream with Ishy breaking the mouse could Have been put on the screen. The show desperately needs a real antagonist 

For better or worse I think this is a combination of GoT influence and horror tropes.

Got Influence:  Season 1 showed a walker off screen I think?  We definitely never saw one of the big bads.  It was all just how humans are bad to each other.

Horror Influence: You don't show the monster, not til much later, now showing the true nature of the DO means it's scarier and details get filled in by the audience.

Rather these end up good or bad things to have done it definitely makes sense from a narrative perspective.

4 minutes ago, Deviations said:

Agreed.  The dream scene with the rats and then seeing the rats in the morning was great.  After that it just got boring.  One of only a few issues I have with the books.   Aes Sedai plotting about plotting is another.

I liked the scene in the books where the figures of them are on the table and Mat was freaking about the DO now knows what he looks like, I touched the figure then it looked like me.  But I agree that the non stop you will join me or die did get old after a bit.

2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

For all of the posters on here who are hardcore book fans and are criticizing the show and actively finding things to dislike about it, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other hard-core book fans who don't post here but are expressing their overall positive thoughts and feelings on the show elsewhere, so there is nowhere close to a universal dislike of the show amongst the hardcore reader community.

 

There isn't even a universal dislike of the show amongst the people who do post here.

 

Um.  Correct?  And nobody is wrong because personal opinions of art are just that: opinions.

4 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

For all of the posters on here who are hardcore book fans and are criticizing the show and actively finding things to dislike about it, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other hard-core book fans who don't post here but are expressing their overall positive thoughts and feelings on the show elsewhere, so there is nowhere close to a universal dislike of the show amongst the hardcore reader community.

 

There isn't even a universal dislike of the show amongst the people who do post here.

And?  Do you think I don't know I'm in the minority here and in general?

3 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I liked the scene in the books where the figures of them are on the table and Mat was freaking about the DO now knows what he looks like, I touched the figure then it looked like me.

Forgot about that one.  I liked that too!

11 minutes ago, Deviations said:

And?  Do you think I don't know I'm in the minority here and in general?

 

If you know you're in the minority, why did you post the following?

 

1 hour ago, Deviations said:

Exactly!  When a group of people invested in the material don't get it or don't like it, something is REALLY wrong.  The subset of people posting on this forum had the highest probability of getting it or liking it!  The fact that a noticeable amount of us didn't is doubly damning.

 

38 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

What value does the Perrin Stedding scene provide?  It introduces Stedding, it info dumps on Hawkwing.   Hawkwing isn't actually important to the narrative, just cool world building.  The Stedding would be better introduced with Loial or other Ogier to give it the proper feel.
 

 

Spoiler

I'd actually argue he's pretty important, with the whole Seanchan story. Maybe not him personally, but his story and where the Seanchan come from. For context at least. If the finale ends on the scene that has been hinted at, it will most certainly be a bit of a WTF moment for many as I *think* Hawkwing has only been mentioned once, by Egwene when talking to Moiraine? 

 

Edited December 22, 20213 yr by notpropaganda73
edit: spoiler'd, realised I am in a TV show spoilers thread, not book series spoilers

1 minute ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I'd actually argue he's pretty important, with the whole Seanchan story. Maybe not him personally, but his story and where the Seanchan come from. For context at least. If the finale ends on the scene that has been hinted at, it will most certainly be a bit of a WTF moment for many as I *think* Hawkwing has only been mentioned once, by Egwene when talking to Moiraine? 

 

There's two aspects to that.

#1: If we want to keep the connection there then it can be established later, but serves no purpose directly to Perrin's narrative now.

#2: While the connections are interesting and all there, you could tell the story as another country with different customs without ever delving into where it came from.  It's not like the books give massive details to origins of other countries, I don't think we know where Tear comes from, or Ghealdan.  Doesn't make them less real places to us.

5 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

  Hide contents

I'd actually argue he's pretty important, with the whole Seanchan story. Maybe not him personally, but his story and where the Seanchan come from. For context at least. If the finale ends on the scene that has been hinted at, it will most certainly be a bit of a WTF moment for many as I *think* Hawkwing has only been mentioned once, by Egwene when talking to Moiraine? 

 

 

Come to think of it the show runners introduced the idea that the Aes Sedai take the 3 oaths because of Hawkwing.  I wonder if that will be a plot going forward with the... you know.

48 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Ok? ... and there isn't a universal like either. The perpetual exchange of salvos from both camps is ultimately pointless because we are fighting a war that we didn't start... both sides here are guilty, myself included.

 

Instead of further poisoning the well, we should all sheathe our blades, shake hands and walk away.

Except both sides aren't guilty?  That's generally a cop out.

I haven't seen anyone pro show say it's universally liked, or that people are wrong for not liking it.  I've seen debates on why this or that change happened, on how it's understandable.  Where as I HAVE seen comments of no true scotsman from the negative crowd.  I've seen it called a complete travesty, an evil, I've seen RJ2 called Ishamael the destroyer of hope..

Also, who walks away?  I think those who are unhappy should have every right to be here and discuss the points they dislike, just maybe without the theatrics or disingenuous pushes?  There's no real question that fans will be here since that's more the actual purpose of the forum, to talk about the show itself.

1 minute ago, Dead Warder said:

Let me re-phrase it to fit your reply then: "The posters here that dislike the show are guilty of slinging mud on this forum, however all those that are pro show are just simply trying to defend against the naysayers and bring about contructive, positive recourse. 

 

How's that? Is this still considered a cop out or more befitting to the truth? I made a half-assed attempt to quell the heat but should have let it continue to smolder. My apologies.

No, because you're being sarcastic and baiting further fight.  Something you yourself decried as poor form in a prior post when you incorrectly said "both sides".

Now, if you have examples of pro-shows going overboard, I'll acknowledge, apologize for my error and move forward.  But I've been part of a lot of these thread and others on other sites and generally haven't seen the pro side get nasty.

I took issue with a tactic often used to divert attention from a side acting in bad faith and questioned it.  I then asked how exactly we walk away when both sides are absolutely welcome here.  Both of those invite further discussion, not a sarcastic admission.

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

If you know you're in the minority, why did you post the following?

 

 

 I know you are really, really busy attacking posters and declaring yourself right about things unproven

 

but if I may, let me intrude on that long enough to ask you to answer my question...

 

Why did Machin Shin say what it said to Perrin, since you are (what was it?) 150% correct.

1 minute ago, flinn said:

Why did Machin Shin say what it said to Perrin

Because it is feeding on his guilt for killing Laila.

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

Because it is feeding on his guilt for killing Laila.

exactly, because he loved another woman.

 

 same as Rand was getting left again.

 

nynaeve wasnt going to be able to save people.

 

 moiraine was going to be wrong and get everyone killed.

 

 Egwene was a fraud.

 

 Machin Shin played on what they were already thinking and Perrin was already thinking that a part of him wanted to kill Laila because he was in love with Egwene.

 

 

Just now, flinn said:

exactly, because he loved another woman.

No. Because he has affection for another woman. That's not the same. 

2 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

If you know you're in the minority, why did you post the following?

 

 

Being in the minority on liking the tv series is not the same as my observation that the ep7  first reviews on this site were negative or confused on 'the triangle'.

14 minutes ago, flinn said:

Why did Machin Shin say what it said to Perrin, since you are (what was it?) 150% correct.

Because this version of Machin Shin clearly latches onto some kernel of truth and then runs with it.

Looking at what was said:

Egwene: "You're nothing."  She isn't, she tries to put on this air of confidence and ability but she's currently not anything, she hopes to be, she wants to be, but she's not there yet.  But she's not an imposter or a fraud.

 

Rand: "She'll never love you as much as you love her"  100% true on the surface.  But she never "Left him" except as a romance, she keeps trying to be there for him and she'll always be on his side even if they don't agree.

 

Perrin: "You wanted Laila dead."  Probably less true, but he probably wanted her out of his life.  A dead marriage is a painful thing and the first episode really paints a picture of him hanging on and trying to make things work while she's grown distant and away.  But their problems are what causes their problems, not that he secretly loves someone else.  Beyond that, there's a very really aspect of possible emotional abuse.  Internally he might very well deflect to thinking he wants something else instead of accepting that he's genuinely not happy where he is, after all, that's admitting personal weakness.  Something most abuse victims avoid, they instead try to find ways to blame themselves.  "I'm not loving them enough, I'm not being a good enough husband."

You'll notice Moraine, Lan and Nynaeve are all more adults and more firmly in control of their lives and all it can say to them is variations of "You're a failure, you'll fail, you'll get people killed."   Because there's no internal issue to latch onto the way there is for the other four.

Edited December 22, 20213 yr by KakitaOCU

1 hour ago, Dead Warder said:

I've seen it called a complete travesty, an evil, I've seen RJ2 called Ishamael the destroyer of hope..

I called this an abomination.  I called Hobbit a travesty.

5 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Because this version of Machin Shin clearly latches onto some kernel of truth and then runs with it.

Looking at what was said:

Egwene: "You're nothing."  She isn't, she tries to put on this air of confidence and ability but she's currently not anything, she hopes to be, she wants to be, but she's not there yet.  But she's not an imposter or a fraud.

 

Rand: "She'll never love you as much as you love her"  100% true on the surface.  But she never "Left him" except as a romance, she keeps trying to be there for him and she'll always be on his side even if they don't agree.

 

Perrin: "You wanted Laila dead."  Probably less true, but he probably wanted her out of his life.  A dead marriage is a painful thing and the first episode really paints a picture of him hanging on and trying to make things work while she's grown distant and away.  But their problems are what causes their problems, not that he secretly loves someone else.  Beyond that, there's a very really aspect of possible emotional abuse.  Internally he might very well deflect to thinking he wants something else instead of accepting that he's genuinely not happy where he is, after all, that's admitting personal weakness.  Something most abuse victims avoid, they instead try to find ways to blame themselves.  "I'm not loving them enough, I'm not being a good enough husband."

You'll notice Moraine, Lan and Nynaeve are all more adults and more firmly in control of their lives and all it can say to them is variations of "You're a failure, you'll fail, you'll get people killed."   Because there's no internal issue to latch onto the way there is for the other four.

 I notice you left out the because... with Perrin, if it were not true... then Machin would have said something like what you said "you were never a good husband, you never loved her properly" etc. etc. etc.

 

 the ONLY reason to add "you loved another woman more than your wife" is if there was a kernel of truth to it.

 

 But, either way, if some of you want to put your head in the sand and deny what is CLEARLY right in front of you, by all means keep on digging in the sand. I am moving on.