The pool scene

 

 

 

It’s a very lovely scene. I’ve always loved the shot of Egwene rising out of the water with the paint and I missed it when it wasn’t included in the final cut. I assume it was cut due to length or pacing in the episode. 

Also think it was a lovely scene.  But I can see why they didn't include it alongside the floating through the river scene - would have been too much to have both.

 

Visually, I prefer the pool scene.

 

Symbolically, I prefer the river scene.

56 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Also think it was a lovely scene.  But I can see why they didn't include it alongside the floating through the river scene - would have been too much to have both.

 

Visually, I prefer the pool scene.

 

Symbolically, I prefer the river scene.

Agreed, it is a visually striking scene but really redundant with the river scene.

 

Also, while the scene is a little wordy I kinda prefer that dialogue compared to the river scene but completely understand why they cut it. 

 

I kinda hope they include part of the scene in a later scene as a flashback or dream.

7 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Also think it was a lovely scene.  But I can see why they didn't include it alongside the floating through the river scene - would have been too much to have both.

 

Visually, I prefer the pool scene.

 

Symbolically, I prefer the river scene.

Exactly this. Now, let's hope they give us the Tam&Egwene scene soon. No idea what that will be about.

6 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Exactly this. Now, let's hope they give us the Tam&Egwene scene soon. No idea what that will be about.

"Because Rand doesn't have a Mother, I need to have this conversation with you.  It is time for you to make an honest man out of him..."  😉

"The ability to give life and take it"

 

What? Since when have the women been allowed the ability/power to take life.

 

It still makes more sense than pushing someone into rock filled rapids and told to go with the flow.

1 minute ago, Mailman said:

"The ability to give life and take it"

 

What? Since when have the women been allowed the ability/power to take life.

 

It still makes more sense than pushing someone into rock filled rapids and told to go with the flow.

Both Men and Women can take life. Only women can give life.

42 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Both Men and Women can take life. Only women can give life.

Define woman...

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

Define woman...

Why?

22 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Why?

It's the next big thing.

8 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

It's the next big thing.

No point in bringing that to WoT discussion

12 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

No point in bringing that to WoT discussion

Why not?  Several discussions here about Rafe updating (gender, sexuality, relationships, whatever) for the show from when the source material was written way back in the Dark Ages of the 1990's.

 

I would not be surprised if Rafe addresses trans-channelers.  Can a trans-woman channel saidar?  Would a trans-man suffer from taint-induced madness?

8 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Why not?  Several discussions here about Rafe updating (gender, sexuality, relationships, whatever) for the show from when the source material was written way back in the Dark Ages of the 1990's.

 

I would not be surprised if Rafe addresses trans-channelers.  Can a trans-woman channel saidar?  Would a trans-man suffer from taint-induced madness?

I suppose that depends on if in wot universe the soul is aligned to someone’s born sex or gender. 
 

It’s been established that channeling is linked to the soul, which allows Halima to channel Saidin, so would just need the above defining. 
 

It does become confusing if based on gender, as some people define as non-binary so would they be able to channel both or just the True Power?

 

If none of the powers, is the Creator then exclusionary against those who don’t fit into a pre-programmed package?

13 minutes ago, Meskell said:

I suppose that depends on if in wot universe the soul is aligned to someone’s born sex or gender. 
 

It’s been established that channeling is linked to the soul, which allows Halima to channel Saidin, so would just need the above defining. 
 

It does become confusing if based on gender, as some people define as non-binary so would they be able to channel both or just the True Power?

 

If none of the powers, is the Creator then exclusionary against those who don’t fit into a pre-programmed package?

Which universe are you speaking of.  There are differences between book universe and show universe.

36 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

No point in bringing that to WoT discussion

 

15 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Why not?  Several discussions here about Rafe updating (gender, sexuality, relationships, whatever) for the show from when the source material was written way back in the Dark Ages of the 1990's.

 

I would not be surprised if Rafe addresses trans-channelers.  Can a trans-woman channel saidar?  Would a trans-man suffer from taint-induced madness?

What DaddyFinn said.
My comment had nothing to do with anything related to trans & gender identity. You'll note that Nynaeve's speech was very "woman" orientated, hence my comment fit within what is used within the show.

My comment was also specifically there to give a possible answer to the quote in the deleted scene.
Going into gender-identity is very off-topic.
 

 

6 minutes ago, Meskell said:

It does become confusing if based on gender, as some people define as non-binary so would they be able to channel both or just the True Power?

In the books, souls have gender, and gender = which power you can channel.
In book, non-binary personalities would still have a gendered soul.
The books were very black-and-white on this matter.

In show, we don't know how exactly they'll handle it, given Rafe mentioned genderless souls.
If I had to guess, they'll stick with "genderless souls" (so they can genderswap some cast), and make channeling tied to whether you're current soul's original body was genetically "male" or "female".
 
Plot hole wise, you break less things if you combine genderless souls & genetics then you do with just genderless souls. To put it bluntly, if you could compulse men into switching genders, and allow them to switch from using Saidin, to using Saidar, the whole breaking could have been averted.

Didn’t mean to hijack the thread, just some free association. Apologies. 

I'm trying to match Nynaeve's speech to the colors.

- strong as the trees = green

- wise as the earth = brown

- willing to do good = blue

- patient as the stones = grey

- sense = white

- give life = yellow

- take life = red

I like that the colors reflect the comparisons being made (green trees, brown earth, grey stones) and also the Ajah characteristics (strong warriors, wise scholars, patient diplomats, etc.)

I prefer the deleted scene to the river scene.

 

It also seems like they could have done the river imagery without having Nyn just yeet Egwene off a cliff. "To become a woman, you must go from the known to the unknown. Submerge and swim into the next cavern." Nyn whisper, "Be strong, trust the river."

 

Eggy swims into the next chamber - she's shocked to be caught up in a rapid current - oh, snap! it's a waterfall! - goes over the waterfall - and scene.

 

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I prefer the deleted scene to the river scene.

 

It also seems like they could have done the river imagery without having Nyn just yeet Egwene off a cliff. "To become a woman, you must go from the known to the unknown. Submerge and swim into the next cavern." Nyn whisper, "Be strong, trust the river."

 

Eggy swims into the next chamber - she's shocked to be caught up in a rapid current - oh, snap! it's a waterfall! - goes over the waterfall - and scene.

 

I personally love Nynaeve yeeting Egwene off the cliff.  But you are not wrong.

14 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I personally love Nynaeve yeeting Egwene off the cliff.  But you are not wrong.

Many book fans loved Egeene getting yeeted off a cliff, and they say Rafe hates book fans...

 

Anywho, I wish they'd have kept both scenes. 

11 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Both Men and Women can take life. Only women can give life.

Firstly they cant give life without a man.

 

Why would the ceremony celebrating a rise to being a adult woman include a section on killing someone. It makes no sense. It smacks of a writer thinking it would sound cool to say give life and then lets include the opposite despite the fact it makes no sense.

 

I was not saying only one gender could take life i would be as critical if it was part of a male ceremony. 

It doesn't read as a celebration of killing to me. More as a highlighting the responsibilities that come with adulthood. As an adult, you now have to be strong, wise, good, patient, sensible, because you have powers you didn't have before, and therefore you must shoulder the responsibilities that come with those powers.

26 minutes ago, Nik said:

It doesn't read as a celebration of killing to me. More as a highlighting the responsibilities that come with adulthood. As an adult, you now have to be strong, wise, good, patient, sensible, because you have powers you didn't have before, and therefore you must shoulder the responsibilities that come with those powers.

No it is self evident that you should not kill people unless you are a psychopath. Its also not a celebration of killing. the celebration is becoming a adult it does not fit as part of the celebration of adulthood.

 

What powers does Egwene now have that allows her to take a life that she did not have before the ceremony?

 

Taking a life is not one of the responsibilities of being a adult.

 

Not only that with the aging up they are around 20 its not like she is a child and did not have the ability to kill before now.

 

It makes no sense.

 

As I said it smacks of a writer thinking a sentence sounds cool or meaningful when it in fact makes no sense.

Edited July 14, 20222 yr by Mailman

23 minutes ago, Mailman said:

No it is self evident that you should not kill people unless you are a psychopath. Its also not a celebration of killing. the celebration is becoming a adult it does not fit as part of the celebration of adulthood.

 

What powers does Egwene now have that allows her to take a life that she did not have before the ceremony?

 

Taking a life is not one of the responsibilities of being a adult.

 

Not only that with the aging up they are around 20 its not like she is a child and did not have the ability to kill before now.

 

It makes no sense.

 

As I said it smacks of a writer thinking a sentence sounds cool or meaningful when it in fact makes no sense.

 

I didn't say that taking a life was a responsibility of adulthood. I said that as an adult, you have more power than a child, and that power come with the responsibility to use it wisely. Obviously, the ceremony didn't make her magically able to do things she couldn't do five minutes before. It's a ceremony. It's symbolic. I also read the references to giving and taking life as symbolic of the ability to do good or bad in the world. To help others or harm them. The language is poetic and hyperbolic, but the sentiment makes sense to me.

 

I understand that you don't like the way it's phrased. But your opinion isn't the only valid one. I'm allowed to read the scene differently.