In A Song of Ice and Fire, there has been little technological advancement for 10,000 years, so WoT is almost mild by comparison. I just think that a world where magic is real is fundamentally different from ours and it's OK for there to be plenty of things that would be inexplicable in the real world.

On 1/14/2024 at 11:03 AM, Sabio said:

Anytime Ishy was spun out he started something to ensure the world wouldn't unite and keep things in chaos.  Getting Hawkwing to turn against Aes Sedai and then the war over his empire, Trolloc Wars, then a 2nd Trolloc War to try and destroy Hawkwing's empire, etc.  Ishy would always do/start something to try and destroy what was being built.

 

This is the actual answer ad most people glossed over it for some reason.

Ishamael is the reason...

 

-Dragonmount exists

-The Black Ajah exist

-The Trolloc Wars happened

-Manetheren and the rest of the 10 Nations are either gone or just remnants

-The Aes Sedai have to swear the 3 oaths

-The Seanchan exist and have corrupted versions of the K Cycle

-Hawkwing's Kingdom would never survive whole

-Slayer exists

-Malkier was destroyed

-Moiraine and company went to the Eye of the World

-The "Village" exists

-Taim knew as much as he did with the Power

-Aviarin's predecessor as leader of the Black Ajah is dead 

 

 

I'm sure there's a few other things I'm missing off the top of my head but the jist of just how ridiculously he influenced the state of the world by the time Rand was born should be pretty clear.

 

 

 

 

On 3/3/2025 at 6:58 AM, Finnssss22 said:

 

This is the actual answer ad most people glossed over it for some reason.

Ishamael is the reason...

 

-Dragonmount exists

-The Black Ajah exist

-The Trolloc Wars happened

-Manetheren and the rest of the 10 Nations are either gone or just remnants

-The Aes Sedai have to swear the 3 oaths

-The Seanchan exist and have corrupted versions of the K Cycle

-Hawkwing's Kingdom would never survive whole

-Slayer exists

-Malkier was destroyed

-Moiraine and company went to the Eye of the World

-The "Village" exists

-Taim knew as much as he did with the Power

-Aviarin's predecessor as leader of the Black Ajah is dead 

 

 

I'm sure there's a few other things I'm missing off the top of my head but the jist of just how ridiculously he influenced the state of the world by the time Rand was born should be pretty clear.

 

 

 

 

You have to consider some of that is probably unreliable narrator. Ishy was often trying to break Rand and so boasting of his abilities plays hard into that.

 

Ishy also was not spun back out into the world after the bore was sealed as he was imprisoned there alive but trapped. He was imprisoned closer to the world than the others allowing him some contact that grew over time.

Edited March 5Mar 5 by Mailman

6 hours ago, Mailman said:

You have to consider some of that is probably unreliable narrator. Ishy was often trying to break Rand and so boasting of his abilities plays hard into that.

 

Ishy also was not spun back out into the world after the bore was sealed as he was imprisoned there alive but trapped. He was imprisoned closer to the world than the others allowing him some contact that grew over time.

 Ishamael was actually spun out twice. It was in the Trolloc Wars that he earned the title Ba'alzamon.

That was actually him in the flesh going around the world and launching Trolloc invasions in all three continents.

 

The next time he was spun out, he acted as Wormtoungue tried to Theoden. Only here, he fully achieved his aims with Hawkwing, when the King sent his two heirs to the other continents on Ishamael's first word, then turned him on the Aes Sedai and his subjects with the second.

2 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

 Ishamael was actually spun out twice. It was in the Trolloc Wars that he earned the title Ba'alzamon.

That was actually him in the flesh going around the world and launching Trolloc invasions in all three continents.

 

The next time he was spun out, he acted as Wormtoungue tried to Theoden. Only here, he fully achieved his aims with Hawkwing, when the King sent his two heirs to the other continents on Ishamael's first word, then turned him on the Aes Sedai and his subjects with the second.

 

It's actually 4 times.

He was only partially sealed and could touch the world for about 40 years every 1000 years.

 

First time was the EotW prologue and his temporarily giving LTT his sanity back is what leads to the creation of Dragonmount.

 

Second time was as Ba'alzamon and organised the Trolloc Wars and started the Black Ajah.

 

Third time was as Hawkwing's advisor Jalwin Moerad where he convinced Hawkwing to siege the White Tower eventually forcing the Aes Sedai to adopt the 3 oaths. Then convinced him to send a large portion of his forces and heirs across the ocean with corrupted versions of the K-cycle ensuring conflict upon their return.

Finally killing Hawkwing before he could fully solidify his empire's future.

 

Fourth time was just a few years after Rand was born evidenced by his killing of the former head of the Black Ajah Jarna Malari (for her unauthorized mass killing of boys born around the time Rand was) and promoting Aviarin to that position.

He created Slayer, set up "The Farm", turned Fain into a Hound for the Shadow and manipulated Jain Farstrider into delivering the message that would draw Moiraine and company to the Eye of the World.

 

Edited March 5Mar 5 by Finnssss22

On 3/6/2025 at 4:40 AM, Finnssss22 said:

 

It's actually 4 times.

He was only partially sealed and could touch the world for about 40 years every 1000 years.

 

First time was the EotW prologue and his temporarily giving LTT his sanity back is what leads to the creation of Dragonmount.

 

Second time was as Ba'alzamon and organised the Trolloc Wars and started the Black Ajah.

 

Third time was as Hawkwing's advisor Jalwin Moerad where he convinced Hawkwing to siege the White Tower eventually forcing the Aes Sedai to adopt the 3 oaths. Then convinced him to send a large portion of his forces and heirs across the ocean with corrupted versions of the K-cycle ensuring conflict upon their return.

Finally killing Hawkwing before he could fully solidify his empire's future.

 

Fourth time was just a few years after Rand was born evidenced by his killing of the former head of the Black Ajah Jarna Malari (for her unauthorized mass killing of boys born around the time Rand was) and promoting Aviarin to that position.

He created Slayer, set up "The Farm", turned Fain into a Hound for the Shadow and manipulated Jain Farstrider into delivering the message that would draw Moiraine and company to the Eye of the World.

 

Oh, that is what I missed!! Thanks. I totally forgot about Jain.

5 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

Oh, that is what I missed!! Thanks. I totally forgot about Jain.

 

And they did a similar thing in the show but instead of Jain, Ishy used Suian's dreams to plant that seed.

 

Obviously season 1 had some issues but one thing they got right was Ishamael's orchestrating pretty much everything that happened in that season. Unfortunately they were too subtle about it and it wasn't made as apparent as it probably should have.