I think part of the issue is that - as people have stated here - the opening books were sometimes all over the place regarding power levels.  And not just Rand's by the way, but everyone else's, as witness the change in power ranks (we got three scales), not only in absolute terms, but sometimes relative as well.  For example, Lanfear started off stronger than Semirhage, then they equalised, etc.

 

The other part of the issue - at least for me - is that I know how strong Rand is, and not just in channelling, and so how ridiculous everything has been up to this point.  I just want the TV series to hurry up, give me the full eight years or whatever it's going to be, so I can get to Veins of Gold and then the end. 🙂 

On 10/11/2023 at 12:53 PM, Elder_Haman said:

No. The people you refer to recognize that Rafe Judkins is creating a television show and that Robert Jordan was writing novels and that those are two different things.

 

Rafe isn’t ‘creating’ a TV show.  He’s adapting novels to TV.  It may seem like a minor distinction but it’s certainly part of the problem for me.

I get that the TV show needs to stand on its own parts, but I felt like how the Eye of the World was portrayed was poorly done. And I didn't like how Moraine said from Episode 1 that one of the people from Emond's Field was the Dragon Reborn, so by the finale, Rand has to hear it from her, even though he doesn't believe it at first and thinks he's doomed to die an awful death. Also, in the books, Rand's battles with Ishamael were more epic, Jordan used a lot of illusion compared to the TV show making the entire confrontation a mind battle. Teasing Rand as the Dragon Reborn for the larger world within the books at the end of The Eye of the World worked for me. 

On 10/12/2023 at 8:46 AM, Elder_Haman said:

This and the plot hole with the dagger is why it’s just best to treat 108 like it never happened. 
 

Aside from that episode, the show holds up quite well. 

Even if this were true, that's a huge thing to have as an "aside."  A season finale is supposed to bring together the threads and deliver payoffs for the seeds have been planted.  We can't just pretend it didn't happen.  What are we supposed to assume is in its place?  A good show?  Why do we need TV at all?  Let's just pretend it's a good show.  

 I think the show is doing a fantastic job of having Rand's journey be more realistic and him come into his own with the power. We see little sparks of how powerful he is (like when he takes out Turak, and he seems surprised after like "holy shit did I just do that?"), but he doesn't have the control and it's made very clear with the Aes Sedai shielding him like he's a child. It's very believable, and I think it fits well with a TV show.

 

In the books, we had patience (mostly) to deal with RJ's inconsistencies with the power levels. RJ had to retroactively add in challenges to the hero's so that their power levels didn't just make things too easy. Madness and sickness for Rand. Block for Nyn. Duty, capture, and apprenticeship for Eggy. Duty for Elayne. Etc. It made things a little confusing at times because there would be chapters of struggle that were suddenly resolved by a quick power blast moment from one of the heroes. And they have the challenge of having to make the struggles visible...where-as in the books we had the luxury of inner dialogue to exemplify the struggle. 

 

I also like how they are subtly showing the different channeling strengths, styles, and talent in the show. As well as context. I hope non-book readers are picking up on these things and are really trying to question why the Forsaken seem so fast and talented compared with the Aes Sedai. I hope they give us more moments of Rand seeming to 'remember' a complicated weave and then be surprised (again like the one he did with Turak, that was later repeated by Ishamael so clearly seemed to be drawn from an AoL memory.), and then unable to repeat the weave at a later time. 

 

 

 

What I don't really understand is why folks will praise Rafe for "correcting" RJs power level inconsistencies (while acknowledging RJ DID weave an explanation into the narrative) but its just UNIVERSALLY accepted that the girls have ALL shown more power and greater success over 2 seasons.

 

THIS is the problem everyone seems to just pretend doesn't exist.

If a show runner had taken a popular IP to adapt, then taken plot beats and victories from female characters, given them to men and just.... promised to make up for it later... I don't think that would fly.

The girls are ALREADY bad ass. Egwene doesn't need to be able to heal, or break free of the a'dam solo, or be Rand's sole motivation, escape the white cloaks, or destroy a trolloc army.

Nynaeve doesn't need to learn swordplay or be better at tracking than Lan.

Moiraine doesn't need to be an arsehole.

 

Can ANY "showcloak" (to turn that around on folks) REALLY justify how little the boys have had to do, and how much the girls have accomplished.

Matt did nothing (mostly book accurate, but still... Likely the most forgivable bc of that :P)

Perrin got his axe for what, one scene? A fridged wife he barely cares about, moping and not much actual development.

And Rand? No flame and void. No sword training. No mentoring from Lan (a man must stand!) No bro time, no bro-arguments, no real madness. No weight of what being the Dragon REALLY means. He had accomplished basically nothing and there is no sign of his character development (they pretty much skipped denial and acceptance, didn't feature Moiraine trying to manipulate him into leadership or his realisation he IS the chosen one and has all this responsibility to fulfil.

 

Honestly changes were necessary, but anyone that can't admit what Rafe OPENLY admitted before s1 (that the show needed to be "updated for modern audiences" including boosting the women's roles, especially in early books) is beyond help.

If you think that's the right thing to do... then say that. But don't deny it happened.

 

I thread necroing precisely bc Rafe recently released a statement acknowledging this himself. That S3 will FINALLY include a lot of what fans have complained was missing. All it took was a few years of namecalling those fans first :P

On 10/12/2023 at 4:24 PM, SinisterDeath said:

@Scarloc99's referencing the scene that was originally written pre-covid. The scene we got was shot post-covid.

Also, Nynaeve was not dead. Her eyes weren't "burnt out" like the others. She was "crispy" compared to the others "charred".  You might have to turn up your brightness to see the difference.

So she was only "mostly dead"? 

 

Sorry,  I couldn't helps myself. 

 

Seriously tho, the ending of Book 1 would be.pretty impossible to convert to film, especially in a TV show. So I don't hate Rands season 1 finale. The Fal Dara thing though,  oh my. I have just chalked it up to COVID messing things up. I had hoped to see Rand do some real sword training at some point but that does take screen time.  I did love the "Indiana Jonesing" of Turak though. It was funny, effective,  and showed his growth as a chaneller.