53 minutes ago, Wassup said:

I agree with a good bit of what mailman posted.  But must consider that many things we see in fantastical movies and shows can be enjoyed at the moment and with some suspension of disbelief and they wither quickly when seriously considered.

This is a fantasy series where many of our heroes possess canonical plot armor as ta'veren and basically everyone else is covered under the oft-repeated mantra "the wheel weaves as the wheel wills." Suspension of disbelief is a core tenet of being a WoT fan (even more than other fantasy/sci-fi).

Edited February 21Feb 21 by Kaleb

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

My biggest question is about the weave used on Verin. Is this a sign Verin knew her protege was Black all along? If she did, it's curious why she would choose her to be in the vault at that moment...

Spoler Warning: 

Spoiler

Maybe she was command to help her protege.

 

I am really excited now for season 3, special after my disappointment with the first two seasons. I thought season 1 had more bad moments than good ones. Season 2 was much better, but still had some story lines that were just not needed and Season 2 episode 8 was a real downer. After the first watch of  the sneak peak, I was just so excited for the season to begin. After watching it again,  I can see some of the flaw that others have written about, but I think that is just nit picking at this point. This is an excellent start and let's hope they keep it up. I know they have to make changes to the story and I don't mind changes to the story, just hate changes that are not needed. Hopefully they are getting back to the book this season. 

29 minutes ago, BookMattBetterThanShow said:

Spoler Warning: 

  Hide contents

Maybe she was command to help her protege.

 

Either Verin has amazing reflexes or she knew the attack was coming.  It looked like she was able to blunt most of the attack(compulsion?) and then looked to her sister on how to react.  It is so fun to theorize again!

13 hours ago, Mailman said:

Come on there are 21 Aes Sedai in that room with only 5 Black and Liandrin is already shielded so it is basically 4 to 1 and yet the black wins.

 

The acting from Alannas warders is terrible knocking on the door instead of at least putting their shoulders into it was just embarrassing. Not even attempting to try and find another entrance if that door is securely locked.

 

Big change to the warder bond that just because you are Black Ajah now you enjoy the feeling of their deaths.

 

Why would you use the staff to beat a woman to death when you have the power to literally cut her in half with the power as seen in this spoiler.

 

The slow motion was poor. The act of leaving the Red Ajah excluded when the charge was being a dark friend smacks of an amateur political move designed to sow discontent within the tower.

 

She has proof that Siuan met with a man that can channel she can ask her a direct question.

 

This is the classic I refuse to like the series and I will find nits to pick at to show why the series sucks.  At this level of analysis, every action sequence in every action movie/series is terrible and consequently the movie/series is bad.  Yes, there are plot holes and illogical events, but sometimes you just need to enjoy the ride and tell the logical part of your mind to chill for a little while.

28 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Either Verin has amazing reflexes or she knew the attack was coming.  It looked like she was able to blunt most of the attack(compulsion?) and then looked to her sister on how to react.  It is so fun to theorize again!

I think she was expecting the attack

I was thinking, but wouldn't there be more blacks sitters?

 

At least a couple were involved in the coup, though i guess they could replace the ones killed..

Edited February 21Feb 21 by A Memory Of Why

Just now, A Memory Of Why said:

I was thinking, but wouldn't there be more blacks sitters?

 

At least a couple were involved in the couple, though i guess they could replace the ones killed..

And a couple may have decided to sit this one out. Remember they are purposefully organized so they don’t all know each other and are being run by different masters. 

If the reports from the Brazilian Comic-Con where this same Sneak Peek - or at least s version of it - was first screened are accurate, just under half of Episode 1 is going to be taken up by this one narrative sequence, which convinces me even more that, with only 8 episodes, they're actually not  going to do the Tower Coup this season and instead save it for later.

 

Regarding the Sneak Peek itself and the contents thereof, I'm struggling even more to figure out how they're going to make Show!Verin's story align with that of her book counterpart without breaking plausibility and creating a whole lot of cognitive dissonance.

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

Regarding the Sneak Peek itself and the contents thereof, I'm struggling even more to figure out how they're going to make Show!Verin's story align with that of her book counterpart without breaking plausibility and creating a whole lot of cognitive dissonance.

 

How so?

Spoiler

A line of dialogue that may not be true spoken in an episode where lying is explicitly said to be a marker of being something important...

 

It may not be exactly like in the books but it rhymes with "Moriaine sent me".

 

 

1 hour ago, DigificWriter said:

If the reports from the Brazilian Comic-Con where this same Sneak Peek - or at least s version of it - was first screened are accurate, just under half of Episode 1 is going to be taken up by this one narrative sequence, which convinces me even more that, with only 8 episodes, they're actually not  going to do the Tower Coup this season and instead save it for later.

 

Regarding the Sneak Peek itself and the contents thereof, I'm struggling even more to figure out how they're going to make Show!Verin's story align with that of her book counterpart without breaking plausibility and creating a whole lot of cognitive dissonance.

It has to be an inside job because the black sister that was with Verin was specifically on a mission to retrieve an item from the 13th depositry without knowledge that Verin was going to access the depository it makes no sense that she would be tagging along by chance. I am guessing that Verin's pretending to be affected was to preserve her secret from her sister. 

Some clarification about my concerns/confusion re: Verin: I'm struggling to comprehend/figure our how it's going to be possible to reveal her as a Darkfriend and still have her actions thus far in the show make sense.

Hi. I'm an old member thatchecked back in because I wanted to talk about the show (and the books, lol).

 

About the battle,  my take is that the 4 black sisters that joined in had discussions of what to do if Liandrin was outted. They being BA had used the power as a weapon previously so we're more proficient in doing so than the average brown, grey, white, yellow, or even blue(the reds who would also be skilled were excluded). So it was really 4 against 5 or 6( not sure if Alanna is a sitter) with a bunch of "civilians " around. It was also quite a shock to find out that 4 sitters were black. 

 

On Verin, I think she knew that Naomi was black. I imagine she was charged with getting her into the depository. She definitely was ready for the attack and blocked most of it. I don't see any problems with cognitive dissonance regarding her actions as it is clear that not all dark friends are following the same sets of orders. She is sufficiently shady in her actions and words to be effective in maintaining her cover.

21 minutes ago, Turin Turambar said:

It was also quite a shock to find out that 4 sitters were black. 

 

On Verin, I think she knew that Naomi was black. I imagine she was charged with getting her into the depository. She definitely was ready for the attack and blocked most of it. 

I shared the shock, and so did the other Sitters, obviously!

 

That is a really good point about Verin... I had not considered it, but the fact that she effectively blocked the attack could indeed indicate she was prepared. Would she have risked Adeleas, though? 

There are many paths to the Shadow. If the Forsaken don't know what each other are up to, then having factions in the Black Ajah also holds true.

Verin  was extremely committed to her effort of infiltrating and uncovering the BA. We never learn all she did to maintain her cover with the shadow, but I imagine she did some terrible things to avoid discovery. 

That is most likely true, @Turin Turambar...

 

And you are making an excellent point, @Ithillian Turambar Sedai. I thought I caught a glimpse of the Black Sitters looking around the room when they first joined Liandrin. If the show respects the "heart" structure of the BA in the books, then it stands to reason that not all of them knew each other before that moment.

I don't know how to tag spoilers on these forums and so I was trying to comment my feelings without explicitly going into spoiler territory, but I'll just come right out and say it: I can't figure out how Verin's actions in the show thus far can  continue to make any sense if she's revealed to be a Dark Friend, and I have a feeling that most of the general audience is going to retroactively feel similarly.

Verin is a sneaky sneak who just seems to know that Liandrin is a bad, and that compulsion was used in the book of novices (allegedly) and wouldn't swear an oath of goodness to Moiraine and also made sure that Rand was set free.

 

...

 

You gotta be subtle when you're planning a shock reveal.

Also that dance around the subject she had with Liandrin and the White asparagus still makes me laugh 😃 

Based on my own understanding of the ways that television storytelling differs - and has to differ - from literary storytelling, I do not foresee Verin being revealed to be a Dark Friend being positively received by general audiences based on the way she has been characterized to date, nor can I figure out how her actions to date can be squared with her being a Dark Friendand do not feel like general audiences will be able to do so either.

2 hours ago, Ithillian Turambar said:

Verin is a sneaky sneak who just seems to know that Liandrin is a bad, and that compulsion was used in the book of novices (allegedly) and wouldn't swear an oath of goodness to Moiraine and also made sure that Rand was set free.

 

...

 

You gotta be subtle when you're planning a shock reveal.

The way Verin led Yassica into figuring out the Black Ajah was responsible for compulsion being using on Sheriam was masterful.  Walked right around that Oath.

On 2/21/2025 at 3:31 AM, Mailman said:

Come on there are 21 Aes Sedai in that room with only 5 Black and Liandrin is already shielded so it is basically 4 to 1 and yet the black wins.

No, it was mentioned that the meeting was called with the minimum legal number of 11. 

So it was 4 against 7, and with a couple aes sedai killed by surprise, it was close to even numbers

 

Quote

 

 

Why would you use the staff to beat a woman to death when you have the power to literally cut her in half with the power as seen in this spoiler.

 

Because all your attacks with the power were being blocked, a staff can be equally lethal, bypass a weaving of spirit meant to block the power, and be unexpected.

I mean, you weren't expecting leane to club a black to death, right?

 

Nynaeve does the exact same thing against moghedien in tanchico, and it worked. The book shows time and again that those who focus solely on the power, dismissing all other avenues of attack, are fools.

 

 

There are numerous other times that physical attacks have been effective against chanellers and turned the battle  decisively. Not sure of the spoiler situation for some so not gonna give all the examples here. 

14 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

No, it was mentioned that the meeting was called with the minimum legal number of 11. 

So it was 4 against 7, and with a couple aes sedai killed by surprise, it was close to even numbers

 

Because all your attacks with the power were being blocked, a staff can be equally lethal, bypass a weaving of spirit meant to block the power, and be unexpected.

I mean, you weren't expecting leane to club a black to death, right?

 

Nynaeve does the exact same thing against moghedien in tanchico, and it worked. The book shows time and again that those who focus solely on the power, dismissing all other avenues of attack, are fools.

 

 

You are wrong about the numbers every Ajah but the red is present so that is 18 sitters plus Siuan Leane and Liandrin for 21. I am fairly sure that the numbers being mentioned despite it having no relevance to the upcoming scene is to set the stage for Siuans removal latter this season.

 

Obviously spirit is not going to block a physical attack. But a weave that actually cuts a person in half is has a physical component. I have no problem with the initial strike with the staff it is the subsequent strikes that would have been more reasonable to use the power for.

Edited February 23Feb 23 by Mailman