I like your case, Turin. Really well-build up. (/sarcasm)

 

I'm now voted by you because two other people have the same role, and it seems my role exists twice too? I don't see any reason to assume that the mafia teams are exactly the same.

 

Is it safe to assume there is one Goon for sure? Because that would mean, that, would I have been mafia, that would mean both had 1) A Godfather, 2) A Roleblocker, 3) A Goon, and then we yet have to add a Silvertongue for both teams, according to Darthe 1.0's info. That would mean 8 mafia players, more than 33% of the game. And yet we there hasn't died any before a roleblocker revealed and a lie detector revealed? That's really unplausible.

 

vote Turin for the most far-fetched case of the game, trying to lynch a revealed townie.

Ley, I never mentioned anything about goons or how many mafia there are on each team. That you are offering up that information leads me to believe you just looked at your QT and the roles you have in there and put it out. I merely took the assumption that there are two teams based on there being two GF sand extrapolated a little based on personal experience. RB is more likely a mafia role. Especially with the town having a LD, a cop and a backup for either the doc or cop. Mafia would be expected to have some roles that would balance the widespread power town has. The GFs were susceptible to the LD. A silvertongue would be susceptible to the cop. but as has been seen with TG getting blocked every night a RB can neutralize either role.

 

I don't know how many members each team has. It could easily be 3 per side. that would be a total of 6. If all had abilities then it might be seen as balanced. I never modded a game so am unsure about that. The fact that you chose the higher number speaks again of inside information.  We have only your word as to your alignment as you were never viewed by either the cop or the LD. That you are pushing yourself off as confirmed is just what a mafia team member would do. That you insist there must be a silvertongue also speaks of inside info. There could be a silvertongue on each team(we haven't seen Hitler or The Japanese Emperor yet) or it could be that Darthe's rubber tongue was meant to be the game balance to the LD. I don't know. If there were 8 mafia to start then it could just have been good fortune or good mafia play that allowed them to get so far. Ithi was out there leading lynches so she would steer clear of her team unless they stepped in it. That she was as sucessful as she was is not really surprising. Your team would be trying to steer lynches away from their side. It is easy to see how the town got caught in the crossfire.

 

 

 

Oh I think you said it already but could you repeat who you blocked each night and why?

 

Nice OMGUS by the way too.

Vote count:

 

Ley 2.0 (1): Turin

Turin (1): Ley 2.0

 

Not voting (10): RTE, Smiley, Random, Maw, Tress, Kaylee, TG, Player, Len, Despo 2.0

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130101T21&p0=422

First, I am not "offering up information", I am just making an assumption based on the fact there is no "Kitchen Sink" in the game title. Next, I also didn't say "confirmed", I said "revealed". That I insist on a Silvertongue is not true, I am making that assumption based on Darthe 1.0's information. You don't remember that he said there were most likely a Lie Detector and a Silvertongue? I think I have now also mentioned all the points that would together force the mafia to have at least 8 players total, with GF, RB, Silvertongue and a Goon. Again, I think this can be assumed from Darthe's info + this game not being Kitchen Sink. And who I blocked every night was the following:

 

Night one: Ley 1.0 (really don't get that, I think he thought I was mafia and would maybe send in the kill or use another night action)

Night two: Ithi

Night three: None (JS was inactive)

Night four: Maw

Night five: Kaylee

So, Turin is floating the idea of two mafia teams, and contending that they don't talk to each other nor do they know who each other are, is that correct?  So, Turin, assuming the previous you believe that the fact that they haven't hit each other once in a NK is just coincidence so far? 

This was during Night 3. look at the time stamps.

Ley 2.0 is replacing John Snow. I am still waiting to hear back on PMs I have sent to find a replacement for BB.

Ley is announced as replacing Snow

 

Ley 2.0 checking in.

Ley checks in. Knows that he has a night action.

 

The White House, Washington:

 

The war was going very badly. Axis forces had taken Midway Island, sunk the Enterprise, bombed Pearl Harbor, and somehow the Germans had figured out their codes had been cracked. Wombat wheeled himself around his desk in the Oval Office, with no one present he felt all right with using the chair. He began to write something on a sheet of paper when he looked up. What was that noise He looked to either side, and saw no sign of the bodyguards who should have been in the room. He did hear the gunshot and the sound of the body falling. Was it an enemy infiltrator right in the White House? He figured he'd better find a spot to hide. But he was too late. The door opened, and there was another gunshot.

 

Wombat, Franklin Roosevelt, Allied Doctor, has been killed.

 

It is now Day 4. Deadline is set at Monday, Dec. 24th, at 11:59 PM EST. Christmas Day will be treated as a day off like a weekend, and whatever phase we are in at the time will be extended 24 hours. I don't know that I could give you the weekend as a half-day, then the 24th as as half-day or whatever, AND the 25th... that'd be a six-day phase.

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

End of Night 3, 12 hours later.

 

Ley, you said that Snow was inactive. You were in the game during this phase. Who did you really target on night 3?

 

Also, interesting that Snow chose to block the claimed inventor that was trying to vet themselves the first night and the person that was leading the lynches on Night 2, perhaps looking for the LD. You stated that you blocked Maw hoping to catch him in a lie as you did Ithi. And that your choice of Kaylee was basically random. Why did you suspect her? If not her then who else do you suspect and why? If you had suspicioins on others would it not have been better to block one of them?

 

Kitchen sink would imply that EVERYONE had an ability. We have already seen there are vanillas in the game so the way I understand that it wouldn't apply. I have been in advanced games where a smaller mafia team with all roled players to make up for their lack of numbers. I recall what darthe said about the likelihood of the silvertongue in the game. I think their may well be one on each team. In this setting it would make sense but I don't see that it would be obvious there are goons. Again there very well may be goons and silver tongues and RBs. We know that there is a mafia RB as the cop has been blocked every night. It is my contention that both teams had one and you are the RB for your team. Your blocking history is not so stellar that it makes you above suspicion.

So, Turin is floating the idea of two mafia teams, and contending that they don't talk to each other nor do they know who each other are, is that correct?  So, Turin, assuming the previous you believe that the fact that they haven't hit each other once in a NK is just coincidence so far? 

I would say that the evidence of two separate GFs strongly leads to the conlcusion of two teams. To my experience there can only be one GF on a particular team. If they were in communication then they would be in effect on the same team. If there are two teams they would be in competition with each other as well. Therefore they would not know each other as it would be utter carnage if they did. The teams would have been killing each other off IMO

 

It could very well be coincidence. here have been 5 night kills so far right?

N1 Despo vanilla

N2 Ley 1.0 inventor

N3 Womby Doc

N4 Darthe 2.0 Day vig

N5 Time LD

 

All power roles aside from Despo N1. He was not overly agressive that I remember and one team could have thought him on the other or just laying low with a powerful role. Ley 1.0, they tried to discredit and lynch D2 then decided to kill him so they could block the cop/LD. Found a Doc tell from Womby or just got lucky perhaps. Darthe was an odd one, maybe they thought him on the other team, or he was getting close to sniffing them out? Time was the LD. mafia will not be able to lynch the cop or LD so they must be killed at night. Which means that TG is the most likely mafia target tonight.

At Night 3, I did not block. As you see, it was only 12 hours, and I hadn't reread it well yet at that point. Just following it a bit isn't the same as thoroughly reading it. About Snow blocking me, I think I have already said enough times I don't understand it. I also DO NOT suspect Kaylee, as I did not suspect ANYONE. Well, Maw, but he was confirmed Town by WoT (I still wonder if he might be Silvertongue though... Too risky to lynch though, I guess).

 

Kitchen Sink is also not everyone an ability, but just too many abilities, for example two third of the people having an ability.

You dont suspect ANYONE?????? Now that seems implausible. I am suspicious of nearly everyone. You must have some opinions. You have been in the game for most of it. You were only dead for Day 3 and then part of Night 3. That you didn't carry over any of your game thoughts suggests that you had to reformulate your thought process from a town mindset to a mafia mindset. Maybe it took a while to read your QT. Otherwise I would think 12 hours would have been plenty of time to consolidate what you thought with what you now knew.  

 

Fair enough on the Kitchen Sink thing. I thought it meant everyone got an ability.

with two GF's dead, I think it's absolutely safe to assume there's two mafia teams. Going after Turin for suggesting this is pretty counter-intuitive: not to mention the OMGUS, Ley. 

 

Instead of believing there's a mafia RB for each team though, I think we need to know what type of actions have been RB'd. I haven't actually played a game with two mafia teams before, but if the flavor plays a part here (as it has with two GF's so far) then I imagine there will be slightly different roles for each team. 

 

Really liking Ley less after this business with Turin, but this puzzle of the Rb'ers might hold the key to multiple scum. 

 

Though, Turin, I'm not sure we want to focus on the next NA just yet: we still have to worry about today. I like this list of NA's though. I'll go back through and see if I can find a common thread

You dont suspect ANYONE?????? Now that seems implausible. I am suspicious of nearly everyone. You must have some opinions. You have been in the game for most of it. You were only dead for Day 3 and then part of Night 3. That you didn't carry over any of your game thoughts suggests that you had to reformulate your thought process from a town mindset to a mafia mindset. Maybe it took a while to read your QT. Otherwise I would think 12 hours would have been plenty of time to consolidate what you thought with what you now knew.  

 

Fair enough on the Kitchen Sink thing. I thought it meant everyone got an ability.

 

Not anymore more than others, I mean. I'm really shooting in the dark who is mafia and who not. I am thinking about doing a good reread though, that way I might notice someone standing out. Also, I checked in at 5 PM my time, just came home, and I haven't really had time until I went to bed, next morning that night was already over.

Random, I'm definitely not focusing on the next set of actions. I am trying to make sense of it in the scenario I am painting and to answer TG's question. My first "real" game (Heroes v. Villains here in BT, EPIC game) had two mafia teams built exactly the same. The nights were insane. Nearly every other one I have seen has either been identical or very similar. The one exception to that was Spider Country but that was DPR and insane. In that one the towns were identical and the mafias were totally different.

 

Ley claims to have never blocked the cop. The cop says he has been blocked every night. Barring a lie from Ley that means the "other" RB is blocking the cop. Ley claims that his role blocked the claimed inventor N1, the leader of lynches N2, no one N3, Maw N4, and Kaylee N5.

Oh lol forgot color...

Turin, why in hell would I block an uncountered Cop?

 

1. Ithi Erwin Rommel, German Godfather, lynched Day 4

2. Turin

3. RTE

4. Darthe William Joseph Slim, Allied Rubber Tongue, lynched Day 1

5. Falcon Ironeyes Jimmy Doolittle, Allied cop/Doc Backup, lynched Day 3

6. Smiley

7. Rand Georgy Zhukov, Allied Mason, lynched Day 2

8. Ley J. Robert Oppenheimer, Allied Inventor, killed Night 2

9. Random

10. BG Isoroku Yamamoto, Japanese Godfather, lynched Day 5

11. Maw

12. Tress

13. Kaylee

14. Bard Babe TG

15. lolguy Player

16. Len

17. Womby Franklin Roosevelt, Allied Doctor, killed Night 3

18. Despo Henry Stimson, Vanilla Ally, killed Night 1

19. WoT13 William Halsey, Allied Lie Detector, killed Night 5

20. Starrik Despo 2.0

21. Snowy Ley 2.0

22. Tina Vasily Chuikov, Vanilla Ally, killed Day 2

23. Thorum Darthe 2.0 Vasily Zaytsev, Allied One-shot Day Vig, killed Night 4

 

I copied this from the front page and colored it the way we are used to Green for town and Red for scum.

 

What I really don't like about this Kaylee is that you colored both GF's the same color, even tho the diff colors the mod put them in strongly implies they were on seperate teams. And as I said before, two mafia teams def fits with canon, considering that there was a European theater for the war, as well as an Asian one. There was a VE day, and a seperate day for the end of the war in Japan.

 

WHy are trying to get us to believe both were on the same team?

Still catching up but wanted to address this. I wasn't implying they were on the same team. When I copied/pasted the colors didn't show. I just went with Red for mafia and Green for town. As it says. Two godfathers says two teams. Sorry if the coloring confused you.

Turin, why in hell would I block an uncountered Cop?

Because you are mafia.

 

The biggest thing that bothers me right now is that you have no opinion on who is mafia. trying to figure out where to put your teammates. Should you put them down as suspicious or give the "I have a town read" on them? Both can put them in the limelight. Fence sitting is a mafia trait created by indecision. That is the benefit of being town. Play freely because your coroner report will be your ultimate vindication.

Look, according to you, I am mafia. Would that mean I had no idea who I'd expect to be in the other mafia team?

 

If there are two mafia teams, the mafia teams can also go scumhunting like townies, but with their allies as confirmed townies, right?

 

That means, that your argument is flawed, as wheter I'm mafia or town, I'd have the same ideas of who I could trust. Except of course confirmed teammates in the case of mafia, who I'd be able to trust for sure.

Ley, your comment about not suspecting anyone pings. 

Look, according to you, I am mafia. Would that mean I had no idea who I'd expect to be in the other mafia team?

 

If there are two mafia teams, the mafia teams can also go scumhunting like townies, but with their allies as confirmed townies, right?

 

That means, that your argument is flawed, as wheter I'm mafia or town, I'd have the same ideas of who I could trust. Except of course confirmed teammates in the case of mafia, who I'd be able to trust for sure.

Either way you should have someone who stands out to you. If mafia, you'd find something on someone not on your team, if town then you should suspect everyone since you don't know their alignment. This game may not be the most active, but it's been active enough to where many have posted thoughts and cases. None of that stands out to you?

I think Turin makes a rather compelling argument on Ley2.0. I'm inclined to believe that mafia teams could trade kills and would specifically not kill a claimed RBer on the chance that it may be from the other team. However, we also need more discussion and letting this entire day be dominated by those two is not going to get us information on anyone else. We still have other players under heavy suspicion, such as Smiley. Given my original suspect list and the fact I'm sure to be dead after tonight I

vote Tress

Why Tress? If you've said why before I can try to find the post. 

 

 

I still think Smiley, RTE and Lenlo are good choices. I'd like to hear what they have to say. 

Vote count:

 

Ley 2.0 (1): Turin

Turin (1): Ley 2.0

Tress (1): TG

 

Not voting (9): RTE, Smiley, Random, Maw, Tress, Kaylee, Player, Len, Despo 2.0

 

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

http://www.timeandda...30101T21&p0=422

Why do you think this exactly, Kaylee? If you have mentioned it earlier (mightn't be able to recall it atm, it's 12:45 AM, so past midnight), just link to it.

TG, given the assumptions noted earlier, and using Despo's assertion that the two mafia teams alternate kills, which seems to follow the facts we have seen so far. The mafia teams wouldn't pass up a chance to kill a member of the other team. I think it is more likely that on the night following his revealing as a RB thathis team had the kill. Then with the option of killing the basically confirmed cop or a claimed RB they shot... Darthe? a one shot vig that some were thinking might be mafia himself. If Ley was BG's teammate (japanese mafia) like I suggested then BG would not have him killed. further BG is devious enough to want to try to kill a member of the other team instead of the cop.

Look, according to you, I am mafia. Would that mean I had no idea who I'd expect to be in the other mafia team?

 

If there are two mafia teams, the mafia teams can also go scumhunting like townies, but with their allies as confirmed townies, right?

 

That means, that your argument is flawed, as wheter I'm mafia or town, I'd have the same ideas of who I could trust. Except of course confirmed teammates in the case of mafia, who I'd be able to trust for sure.

I had to read this three times to figure out what you were trying to say. I still may not have straight. But this is what I think you are saying:

As mafia you would not have any idea who was on the other team, just as if town you would not know any mafia. This would be true. Also if there are two teams as I have supposed, that each mafia team can go hunt the other while knowing who their teammates are. this is also true. your conclusion is wrong as simply having the information is not the point. Mafia tend to be unwilling to address who else they really think is mafia because they are unsure of how to address the matter of their teammates. It isn't that you can't trust your teammates but you are unsure of how to put thoughts on thread about them. do you call them out to distance or do you say that you think they are town to try to protect them. the worst of all is to ignore them altogether as if you die it will draw the most attention to them. So you say I do not know who the mafia is and promise to do a reread.

 

Why do you think this exactly, Kaylee? If you have mentioned it earlier (mightn't be able to recall it atm, it's 12:45 AM, so past midnight), just link to it.

Why does she think RTE, Smiley and Lenlo are mafia? 

or why does she ask for info about Tress?

 

I thought you were rereading Ley? Maybe you have been up too late.