Agitel

This is just an "ackshually" moment on my part, nothing to do with the show... Outside of the books, both Jordan and Sanderson confirmed (for better or worse) that gender is a soul attribute in the Wheel of Time world. Interviews with both with direct answers are included here. https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='dragon soul'

The second Callandor was mentioned as the most powerful male sa'angreal and it having an equivalent for the female half of the True Source it seemed obvious this is the way they're going. Happy for the confirmation, though. I am on board with the simplification. Like I detailed earlier in my full books spoiler post, I am... interested in how they handle a couple plot points that are put in conflict because of the simplificiation.

While I appreciated seeing a lot of references in this episode to the Flame and Void and Aiel culture, I did feel like they were kind of sloppily fed in at the last minute rather than built up naturally over the course of multiple seasons (or even just this one season). It's like "oh here, lore. And more lore. And more lore" like rattling off a list. Some of it is hard because you're not in a character's head and need an excuse to talk about it, and Lan and Rand missed their sword training until this season.

It should also be remembered that in Book 4 there is still so much that is vague and we don't know, whether lore-wise or from a limited character perspective. At this point in the books Rand is still channeling very instinctively with very little idea about what he's doing. He can do very little with the One Power consistently. He can't even consistently seize the source to weild it. His terminology for describing what he's doing is all over the place. It's not until the next book he (and therefore the reader) even begins to get a grasp of it, and it still takes multiple books to really flesh a lot out. We do have some insight because we at least know what Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve were taught in the Tower in books 2 and 3, so they have some fundamentals to understand how weaving saidar works, some of which we can apply to Rand. But before they were trained they couldn't see the flows to weave with, or know any specific weaves, or or sense when another woman was channeling. Reincarnation is also not something that gets fully explained in the books. There's not anything suggesting blood descent, and we do get some additional insight they haven't delved into yet, but the in world belief of the characters in reincarnation is not something they have any actual hard data about. A lot of what we know which is vague to in world characters has been clarified by Jordan and Sanderson. And people still come on with questions or misunderstandings about balefire, reincarnation, the Ages, the Wheel that we as a community kind of have cultural knowledge about from discussing Jordan's and Sanderson's words (in addition to the books) which feels obvious. Now all of those details are fun, but they're not necessary for following the plot, so it's not like Jordan made mistakes and forgot to put things into the books. There are just things in world characters don't know but which Jordan has fleshed out as background for his world.

The show Tower is obviously much more generous in the liberties it gives its novices and accepted so it's hard to judge, but still. Edit: For comparison, though, book accepted aren't at liberty to just leave the Tower/Tar Valon of their own accord to do what they want.

Egwene stated a condition for returning for testing, but after the test she told Siuan to F off in so many words and admitted to only using her.

This is the type of stuff that'd get you doing penance on a farm for three years.

I get Elder Haman's comments, but come on, basically telling an authority figure that you just used her and are going to ignore what she tells you to do is just what it is to tell someone you don't accept their authority to tell you to stay. An Accepted does that in the books and she is literally dragged by her ear to the Mistress of Novices for penance and possible switching and kitchen duties for a month, assuming the Aes Sedai doesn't just tie her up with air and/or switch her there with weaves of air for such flagrant disrespect to an Aes Sedai, let alone the Amyrlin.

I do wonder about the reduction of sa'angreal for the show. Full series book spoilers ahoy:

3000+ years goes beyond the limits of believability, I think (though they get rather vivid reminders through the Columns), but we today are also in a much more individualistic culture. Certainly throughout history people have seen obligations and shared responsibilities across time and a people.

The Aiel have long forgotten the reason for their breakup with the Tuatha'an, at least those who aren't clan chiefs and wise ones. However, the original division was because the Tuatha'an abandoned their oaths to the Aes Sedai to transport certain things to safety. They became "lost" in this way. The Aiel also have a strong warrior culture, and don't really understand the pacifism of the Tuatha'an. Still, the Tuatha'an are one of the few people the Aiel let cross the Wastes to the nations on the other side unmolested. They don't antagonize them. At least, it is very strongly taboo to bother them.

Well, can't remember exactly how the show covers it. To break it down: First, there may be multiple lineages a person has. The Columns are specifically tracing back Rand's Aiel lineage. Second, the visions Rand has in the columns are not his prior lives or incarnations. He is just experiencing events through the eyes of his ancestors. But these were different people and different souls. Third, Rand has no known blood relation to Lews Therin. Lews Therin was his most recent prior life, his most recent incarnation before Rand al'Thor. But the cycle of reincarnation is not tied to blood ancestry at all. One can reincarnate into someone who you have no blood relation with. The numbering wasn't meant to be presented in an abrasive way. Sorry if it comes across as such. Edit: And sorry if my phrasing in my last post was obscure or confusing. When I wrote "Rand lives as..." I didn't mean that to imply it was his prior life. I was just trying to capture that he isn't just witnessing events as an external watcher, but he is experiencing that event as his ancestor, with all their emotions and investment. But my phrasing could be confusing when reincarnation is such a key part of this world.

I don't think we're doing any of Book 5 this season or revisiting Book3 plot points. In addition to the rest of Rand's arc, we still have Perrin, we still have Elayne and Nynaeve (and Mat) in Tanchico. And I expect to see Mat and the red door, too. We already had Min's vision of him hanging from the red door. And then the rest of Rand's book arc (which will probably be simplified). I expect we'll see Book 5 events around Cairhien transposed to Tear next season, and bring back some Book 3 plot points.

Yes, we did in season one. I think my comment there was just about giving another reason why this was a very cool sequence for book readers prior to the show.

Typing that up, I think they did gloss over a few details that make it a bit harder to follow the significance to the Aiel. And also the trust of objects of power given to the Aiel which forms the basis for the mission. This mostly seems cut by the show and simplified to just the one sa'angreal. For book readers, this sequence also provides the first glimpse of the Age of Legends, and shows it is a futuristic society with skyscrapers, planes, flying cars, has warriors with weapons that shoot lightninig, etc... Which is a pretty cool revelation to the standard fantasy tropes.

There was an opportunity for one more vision which illustrated that but I'll give the writers and directors a pass due to time constraints.

Finished the episode. Still processing. I don't have any issues with deviations from the book this episode. Not sure if there was some awkwardness writing-wise, particularly to the beginning of the episode. I admittedly did roll my eyes when Avi disarmed Lan (can the legendary warrior catch one break, lol) though I'm not mad about it and I was at least pleased to see what originally struck me as a "pointless fight" turned around to make a point and get Avi called out by the Wise Ones. I should have seen that pivot coming but Avi's plot point here wasn't even in my mind for some reason. I think it would have been nice to see slightly less Lanfear killing Moiraine and more Rand falling into Lanfear's influence and darkness. Again, I'm not even mad about these changes. I say "I don't have issues with deviations" then dive into a couple quibbles, but I don't feel "hung up" on them the way I felt about some things in episodes 1 and 2. The flashbacks I think were well executed. Loved seeing Josha adopt all these different characters. And I think the way they presented Moiraine's own visions in a montage of "turnings" was good.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but if this season performs worse than two I hope Amazon will take into consideration the better critical reviews. Even if it starts lower I think S3 could have legs and word of mouth and really be the foundation for a true hit.

I think we're reading too much metaphysics into what the show means by "true death". I don't think it need be any different than the books (at this point).

Oh, I put this in the S3E3 thread, but E3 was pretty good. I enjoyed myself through the whole thing. Just wanted to throw that out there.

There's been plenty of times in the past where I've used that same argument, but after seeing so many more adaptations over the last decade... I just don't buy it anymore. And even if we cut the battle of the sky, which I don't think necessary, I don't find it at all necessary to just demystify everything, such as having Moiraine make the dragon at the end. It's all about set up and payoff and appropriate foreshadowing. And the Bubble of Evil is simple enough to explain. However, changing it lets them use it to different purposes, tying it into the manipulation to leave Tar Valon, getting Lanfear and Moiraine interacting and bargaining with each other, showing Moraine's ruthlessness, and tying all these beats together. I know what they're doing and why. (Edit: I do generally approve of the changes in S1 ending (or the idea behind it... execution was a little rough). It ties it into the serie's broader themes. I won't say more outside of a full book discussion. But it's just a pattern I see repeating.) And I'm not necessarily complaining so much as observing the sort of demystification and tying what in this world would be supernatural to hard, scientific and natural reasons. I do think there is a little something that is lost there, but not without any gain (such as what I explained regarding the Bubble of Evil). But apart from any specifics of the show, I'm over the whole "it just wouldn't adapt to cinema well" in adaptations. It's generally a bad reason to make changes, or at least an overused one. At this point I appreciate adaptations that lean into the wonky. And this is different than wanting everything adapted beat to beat. It's more about personality than literalism. I'm just going to agree to disagree that these things needed to be changed because a TV audience wouldn't get it.

Alright, I'm caught up through S3E3. I enjoyed this one. Gonna let it percolate more.

I haven't watched S3E3 yet, but one observation I've had is the show seems to want to provide "natural" explanations for things. There's so little religion in the book, but even the sort of theological explanations we see about the Pattern and the Dark One seemed toned down. So for example, I'm looking at the endings of S1 and S2. Both of these books have really weird endings. I really didn't mind the idea behind the changes in S1, but still. End of S1 we get the Creator's voice removed. Not a big deal. But then end of S2 we lose the real battle in the sky. TBH this battle was always kind of weird, especially in respect to the later books. But still, there's something higher (the Pattern) at work drawing these prophecies and moments together and announcing it to the entire world. S2 just removes all of that. The conflict we see is much more "natural". Then the major announcement to the world is also not some larger power at work but just Moiraine doing something with the One Power. Now in S3E2 we have Bubbles of Evil. But rather than go with it being the Dark One's increasing influence and power rippling across the Pattern... It's just Lanfear and Moiraine conspiring to make things happen. A "natural" explanation. And these changes may all have had specific motivations to better set up specific arcs, but in each case it's taking almost theological/religious events of a sort and making them just the machinations of individuals at best, explaining them away. Maybe S3E3 has a major counter example. I'm curious to see. But I did want to observe that I've been disappointed in a lot of adaptations and expansions of beloved IPs recently. The ones that seem to resonate better are the ones that embrace the oddities and eccentricities of the source material, rather than be like "oh that won't work for a TV audience" according to our focus groups and executives. And by oddities I really don't just mean beat for beat adaptations, mind you. But just the wonkier stuff you see in the setting/original medium and just leaning into it rather than shying away. Whether Fallout or One Piece.

S3E2 was the first episode of WoT my wife has ever seen. She has not read any of the books. When Morgase killed her rivals right in the middle of court after promising forgiveness (of a sort), she was perplexed. She's not politically naïve. She also loves ASOIAF (which she's both read and watched). She found this to be a big political blunder. She asked me about it, and upon seeing my face, picked up it wasn't in the books. "Well, is she an unpopular, ruthless queen in the books?" she asked? "No," I replied, "she's generally had a popular reign and is pretty beloved." My wife laughed at that.