HeavyHalfMoonBlade

While that could definitely play a role, the book makes clear that age at least doesn't determine how they treat him. I think it explicitly uses examples of young who treat him like a son and old who treat him like a brother. But yes it definitely makes sense that those that gave a baby up for adoption would be more inclined to see him a representative of all those children given up.

I mean no matter what you think of the changes made to the story, I don't see how any adaptation would be possible of the books with only 8 short episodes per season. Sadly I'd say that decision is the part that is too different from the books and nothing, particularly from a purist's point of view for the plot could be done to save the original story, or any embellishments.

I tell you, Mother, he is the most disobedient dog I've ever had. It's like he doesn't even understand English! And telling him to say cheese was disaster. Hasn't stopped miaowing since.

In the early Lan scenes I think he is quite specific about why he won't raise the Golden Crane and won't lead anyone into the Blight. It is quite clearly framed I think through Moiraine's pov that he has a war with the blight and the shadow, one that he knows he cannot win and he cannot quit. He is just pausing it to help Moiraine as it is something that would hurt the shadow more than anything else. So for me the ending is that he can finally see past that paradox of being in a war he cannot win, cannot get out of, cannot ask for help. Though it is not much of an arc in the end as what else would he think the Final Battle was? Surely he could see the end coming even if he did not expect to survive it. I always thought the visions were about his past, though now you point it out, that doesn't make a lot of sense compared to all her other visions. *Shrugs*

I'd say it is more that his role as leader of his people had always been to lead them to their deaths, for them to die for his battle. Now he gets to protect them and nourish them, admitting his birth right and flying the Golden Crane no longer means that people will die and he does not have to refuse the duty to live his life. Now his duty is to love and love and be with his family and countrymen. I don't think he ever wanted free, not like Mat did, he just wanted more to offer those around him. And now he is a King, that is a pretty big change.

I think it is a bit of the uncrowned King cliche, he cannot really walk away from that, he doesn't have anyone to pass it onto. Outside of the over-used trope, I think it was that he had his battle with the Blight that he couldn't win, one that he swore to fight alone. Then he met Moiraine and realized her fight was even more important. Then he has has something similar to Rand where he accepts he cannot make decisions for others and raises the Golden Crane because it needs to be done. And he wins his war that cannot be won. He finally has something more than a widow's mourning clothes to offer. His country is back, the Blight defeated, Moiraine's battle won and her need for him over. He can finally live the life his parents wanted for him. I mean yeah, it's a bit twee but I think the arc works more or less. One of the few bits of the end that did not irritate the goat's left stone out of me 😄

I made the kaf! I ground the beans and everything, Mother. I'm just having a few issues at this end with things in the cup.

The Aztecs did invent the wheel, it just wasn't used - unless I am very much mistaken we have extant children's toys with wheels from Meso America. Yes, progress is messy, but it does progress. The timescales are dodgy - yes there is a certain amount of in-story justification, enough I'd say for poetic license. But it is a conceit of the genre that things remain stable for centuries. Like the Game of Thrones I believe some of the houses have been ruling for 8,000 years? That's dumb. A comparison can be made with David Gemmell's Rigante series, following a fictional Scottish/Briton state from fending off the Stone Empire (Rome) to Jacobean/Napoleonic rebellions. The technology changes a lot obviously over that shorter time period, and by implication also the farmers aren't just doing the same thing generation after generation, or any other craft. Progress is messy, yes, but it never goes backwards. It just takes some detours.

Peas

Hi Loki 🙂

The problem is that as the books have been finished for more than ten years now there is no longer a spoiler policy about the books. So all threads potentially contain spoilers for the whole story. That would make it difficult to join in any book discussions ongoing. It would be best to start your own threads with very clear spoiler instructions if you want to discuss aspects of the book. We all hate spoilers so will do our best to not spoil anything for you. On Discord there is a spoilers and no-spoilers chatroom, and some people started threads, I think they are called, detailing their own reading journey though I'm not sure how many people kept them up to date. For you, perhaps the transient nature of Discord could be a plus.

Overthinking

That is not necessarily mutually exclusive. He was presumably interested in making it, but that does not mean he did not regret the decision and once he was contracted and paid he could hardly then refuse to do hold up his end of the bargain - if he really wanted nothing to do with it I imagine he would have been obligated to appear at those marketing events. I don't have anything to contribute to the veracity of his opinion about the game however.

I know nothing about sigs. It took me about 15 minutes just to find the setting, truth be told. But I know a man who might (don't want to put on undue pressure) @SinisterDeath, see if can summon his aging bones here.

Hi Zen! Welcome to the very slopes of Dragonmount 🙂 Hope you enjoy yourself and never be shy to come and ask about anything or indeed share your experiences as a lot of us have been reading the books our entire lives and it is great to see others on the same emotional journey or someone offering a new perspective about their favourite characters or anything else. Look forward to seeing you around 🙂

That isn't though how the industrial revolution worked. There were prerequisites that were required such as sufficient scientific knowledge but that does not magically make the revolution happen. China had all the necessary ingredients 500 years before the UK and nothing happened. The idea that you can jump to a functioning vehicle without a working steam engine is nonsensical. What use would it be? It would be inefficient, far less than existing transportation methods. What would power it it? Where would the infrastructure come from to supply the engines? Why would anyone invest in the roads and tracks needed for these new machines? Where is the patent system to allow inventors to profit from their inventions? It takes the industrial revolution as a single idea that someone had and then thought, oh, yes, let's implement that then. That will be super. It is hardly important for the book, but it shows a startingly naive view of how science works and in particular about the industrial revolution.

The details are glossed over a bit certainly, but that to a degree makes them more believable. I think the point is that the Pit of Doom is not simply a place, as a geographical location it would be unchanged by sealing the Bore. But reality that "close" to the Bore (I think it is stated that this is a simplification of its nature) is warped, so as the Dark One can touch the Pattern through the Bore, those in the Pit are closer to his Prison. When the Bore was sealed, this warping was cut off, catching the Forsaken caught between the two dimensions, as if in a tunnel where one end is bricked up. But where were they? Were they geographically still in the Pit? Were they there but in a different dimension such as TAR? Were they close to the Prison and only reappeared as the seals failed and the Bore opened again? Does it even matter? I think the lack of details works better than an exact faux-physics explanation.

Halima seems to point that it is not something entirely physical but is related to the soul (or whatever is transferred) but is still very opaque as to what causes that. From the past lives of everyone it seems that gender is locked to the soul. It could be of course that in Randland there is no non binary or transgender people, just as there is no prostitution. RJ created it, so if he wasn't thinking about that aspect... Or possibly a more fitting example is religion in Harry Potter's universe. They all exist except Wicca, as their understanding of magic is different from the wizards, so if in canon if Wicca existed it would be objectively wrong. So in canon, it does not exist which you could argue is more respectful than including it but portraying it as factually wrong.

It raises an interesting point as to when do weaves stop being weaves? Fire weaves appear to be able to act directly as fire, but in other channelings we see water drawn out of the air, not simply manifested from weaves of water. Is a fireball a physical fireball or just the visible part of the weave? While I would not say there is no chance this is something RJ changed his mind on, even if any direct weaves would unravel when touching Mat, he was still wearing a lot of metal implements while power-generated lightning was being thrown about. I don't think it is too difficult to see how dangerous that would be in any circumstances.

It was studied, but to liken the Power to a natural force seems too simplistic. We cannot control gravity with our minds. At the moment anyway. The Aes Sedai also seem to know far too much about things like the Age Lace and the metaphysical reality beyond what we can experience. So the Power, while it can be studied with the scientific method is still very far removed from natural science. The ability to channel is supposed to be hereditary, but that is only a theory and the body swapping is confusing. Halima gets a whole new DNA but his soul can still channel saidin. But Rand, the most powerful channeler of all time cannot channel in a body Ishamael could. Which means, er, well...

Technology is an object. Ter'angreal you could look at as technology or magical items, I would argue. Actually manipulating and channeling the source is objectively magic, that is using your mind to control supernatural energies. But then is researching the Power scientific and technological, or is practicing magic, well, magic? Or indeed both would be my answer. Channeling uses an innate ability, not a substance or technique or machine. But it can be used in technology powered by the Power.

That could be an interesting take on "why" time is circular, to give a statistically sound result, lol. The Creator is a bit of a fuzzy concept in the books though He does speak to Rand in tEotW doesn't he? Or maybe that is not really canon, just sort pushed aside as one of those strange things that happen in the first books.

I see what you mean, possibly this is very similar to what RJ had envisioned. To me, the male way of weaving a Gateway, boring through the pattern seems to be physically connecting those points. The female way of creating a similarity sounds almost like quantum entanglement or something like that, but it all seems to be about creating the Gateway in the pattern, not actually transporting anything through it. The TAR thing seemed to me to more like just a technique you could use in the pattern (age lace) or in the fabric of TAR, rather than actually the same thing. But your construction certainly neatly explains the Shadowspawn issue, which mine most certainly does not.

You realise the poll is not a yes/no question? Not to be pedantic or anything, lol. I think everyone experiences the slog differently. The narrative definitely gets caught on a snag, but I don't think it is as easy as pointing to any one feature or book that is the cause of it. Most elements I would say stand up fine on their own, but everything taken together does feel like something stagnated. The wagon journeys of Nynaeve and Elaine grate. Especially with the changes of directions. The Shaido arc with Perrin/Faile took how many books to resolve?, and then just fizzled out in a very unsatisfactory conclusion (for me, at least). The cleansing of the Source was a huge deal, but it did not actually seem to move the story at all. Too many mysteries seemed to be held secret for too long, and then were anticlimaxes or no longer relevant once revealed. I think it is more just a problem with the general pacing that is diffuse so difficult to pin down and each person will feel that slow down in different ways. The biggest jolt for me is at one point where it felt to me like the story would be following the Emond Fielders for the rest of their natural lives, things like the Black Tower needed years to become relevant and it just outright states that Tar'mon Gaiden is at most a few weeks away, from Rand looking at the clouds or something. I think a lot of people complained that after the cleansing of the Source, the narrative kept going back over what every minor character was doing at that point. I can't say that bothered me, but I think even RJ admitted that that did work as he had intended.