besides the scum claim? and the fact that he has proven he gambits?

 

its the lack of clarity. he seems to be doing it on purpose. Why would town want to be THAT confusing?? a little bit to hide or make people think your the cop? ok i can buy that but that much? and he wasnt that obscure last game here. so thats different.

Which game?

 

And which gambits?

Here. It will take me some time to read Ben´s posts. I was definitley aiming for Clov today and I would like you to tell me why he is town. 

 

Cory - I know you read me 100% right but I have no idea how you read Dice or otheres. Dice always say that I read him well but I really don´t. 

 

Sooh - I had Ben as possible mafia early on. I guessed Ben/Clov/Marsh before I realised that there were only two mafia. One of the reasons where post #52, that I still think is important. I think Ben tried to signal Clov there. 

N1 If I´m cop, BFG is mafia. 

Got to the bottom of page 53, have to stop reading now because I don't have more time, I'll try to catch up within the next few hours but I might not be able to until this midday.

 

To anyone around:

3 most confident reads? can be wolf or villager, just want get a snapshot of what everyone's thinking

 

BFG, Niniel and Marsh town. Would've added Nolder instead of Niniel but he's dead...

 

My N1 read btw - Dice mafia.

Looking at Ben´s posts I can just agree with some of you, SK and Cory are probably town. Ben would not have focused on them so much and voted them if they were mafia. 

 

I don´t see any mentions of Ben being able to see the mafia qt. I guess he had to make all decisions himself. Just to be sure:

 

 

AJ - could Ben see the mafia qt? 

Ben is getting good at mafia quickly but this was his first time playing traitor so I think it´s possible that he could have been pretty straight forward with his reads. 

 

People he was town reading were mostly Clov and Sooh but also Ley in the end. When BFG asked he said that he had no read on Dice. 

 

besides the scum claim? and the fact that he has proven he gambits?

 

its the lack of clarity. he seems to be doing it on purpose. Why would town want to be THAT confusing?? a little bit to hide or make people think your the cop? ok i can buy that but that much? and he wasnt that obscure last game here. so thats different.

Which game?

 

And which gambits?

 

 

your Suicide Squad. and the gambits he has pulled here in this game

Got to the bottom of page 55, again gotta stop now.

 

There is the possibility that lzm is insane.

 

He viewed me town, so he's not insane. There's a good possibility Clov got framed, however, as he was one of the more visible and solving town players, and they already killed Nolder.

 

At this point I'm not sold either way.

 

 

That was actually what I was getting at earlier with Sooh that I said I'd explain later. Anybody that is familiar with my play (spoiler: those three have seen me play, spectate, advise, mentor, etc. a ton) will tell you I do not unnecessarily bus. If you're going to argue I knew that Ben was the traitor, you're arguing I am deliberately hurting my team for literally NO advantage.

Sooh had me as a town read and was feeling worse about me after I, for all intents and purposes, hammered Ben. I don't expect to be cleared by it - I didn't know he was the traitor, and as mafia, I wouldn't have known that either. However, in order for me to switch there, I would have needed SOME sort of incentive.

Literally the only thing I gained is NOT killing SK, who have the game wouldn't have missed and nobody would have pushed me for lynching.

Incorrect statement. I am guessing you figured Ben out. He was practically shouting it with that reads list of his. "Clov has been scumhunting without falter" or some sad crap. You have been wishy washy on your stances all D1. You literally had 3 different reasons for not wanting to lynch Ben after you unvoted him the first time.

Also, I happen to have viewed both of those on Bens reads list he called town. Now I wouldn't put both scum mates as town in my reads list, but I def. put one in there always. Maybe Ben adheres to those rules, maybe not. What I do know is I have a town view on Ley, and a Scum view on you. This will be my main point I want resolved today. Maybe I'm the insane cop, I dunno.

I do not like you're play Clov, I feel Leys play is better than yours and I'm gonna roll with the assumption I am sane until proven otherwise.

 

 

What is it about my crappy day 1 that makes everyone say I play well?

 

SK vote [v]dicetosser1[/v] with me

 

I think prolonged discussion today is going to be -EV, which is annoying to say, but it's a function of the game mechanics XD

 

What makes you think he's scum?

 

D1 Final Count

SK (5) - Dice, Marsh, Ley, DJ, Ben

Marsh (1) - Sooh

Ben (6) - Nolder, LZM, Nini, BFG, Clov, Cory

Ley (1) - SK

 

Not Voting:

 

 

On Ben´s train:

 

Nolder was town.

 

I believe LZM´s cop claim today. I won´t trust his reads because of framers/insane cop but I don´t think he would claim cop today if he weren´t one.

 

Nini - town. 

 

BFG - been my best town read. Questioned Ben. Need to go back and see how much. 

 

Clov - looking at Ben´s posts he is a suspect. Clov says that he never bus. Not sure if that is true and if so, why couldn´t he change it this game. 

 

Cory - looks good because of Ben´s vote on him.

 

 

Not on Ben´s train:

 

Dice - hasn´t done much. Ben said that he hadn´t noticed him much. Suspect. 

 

Marsh - I had him as mafia yesterday but then he started to post better which made me believe he was town after all. 

 

Ley - I had him as town yesterday but that was from a few posts and he hasn´t posted much at all. 

 

Dar - Haven´t stood out at all. It´s so hard to see if it´s a newbie thing or not. From memory I think that she has only pointed out SK this game. Need to check.

 

Sooh - Had a townie feeling but then she was gone for almost a day. (I see why, so I don´t question rl excuses.) Ben had a town read on Sooh all the time. She was his first "joke vote". My tinfoil theory (that I probably shouldn´t focus on) is that mafia is Sooh and Clov. Sooh "viewed" Clov as mafia to look like a sane cop later. Well, I guess others are more interesting to look at than Sooh but I´ll leave it here. 

 

 

 

I´ll just see SK and Cory as town. Will try to get time to read as much as possible about the others. 

Oh, and LZM is town. And I´m town. And BFG is most probably town. 

Another page read, gotta stop again.

 

 

 

dice/Ley might be the ~exact wolfteam

Why do you figure that?

 

It's highly likely that ley is scum. Dices vote on me as well just appears as an excuse to vote no turning of the knobs so to speak. also I don't remember anything he has said. I am willing to buy ley/dice as scum.

 

 

Why do you think so?

Read Dar´s posts since it would go quick. It´s just impossible to know if she is just newbie or newbie mafia. I would like to say the first but who knows. 

 

Dar - you said that you don´t like D1 and I agree that it´s hard to find mafia on the first day. But now we have more to go on. What are your reads?

ISO´d BFG´s posts where Ben is mentioned because I don´t have the time to read 8 pages. She questions Ben, then don´t know, but she doesn´t have a better read so she ends up voting Ben. Since I had a town read on her before and since she voted Ben I think she is still town.

 

 

BFG - I really like when you question people and don´t let go. I feel that a lot of it has been with Cory and Clov and there are a lot of meta that I don´t get. Could you just make a short post about how you read them right now. I assume you think that Cory is town since you wouldn´t mind a Dice lynch. Who do you think is mafia? Dice and ? 

While reading BFG´s post I found that post from Clov where he thought D1 ended a day early and wanted to vote SK just to save Ben. Doesn´t look good. It could be:

 

1. Him trying to save Ben, hoping people would follow him.

 

2. Maybe it´s just too obvious? How much would mafia stick out to save a traitor? 

It didn´t take long to iso Dice. 

 

i think sk is scum. i was thinking cory town but im having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that he popped out a view then turned around to try and get it lynched. thats not normal town cory. Clov ive last couple times caught as scum but iirc it took me a bit to see it. I do want an answer from him about the ben statement. dont know on him yet

 

Dice, I get why you were suspicious of SK yesterday. And I agree with you that I really don´t get SK´s posts and play style. But don´t you think Ben going after him is a good sign? And I do agree with you that it´s bad just to ask people to follow you blindly. But don´t you think Ben going after Cory is a good sign? 

 

 

To me it seems like you are stuck in your D1 read and aren´t willing to take a new look at it. It doesn´t look good. 

 

 

Dice is a suspect. 

After my initial mafia read on Marsh he came back and posted a lot even though he didn´t have the time. I can understand why he is annoyed by SK twisting his words. 

 

Marsh: You think Cory looks good because of how Ben treated him. Is it any different from how he treated SK?

 

Your reads right now if I get it are: BFG, Clov and BFG are town. SK is mafia. You are voting Dice because you trust Cory? (Because you didn´t think his case was good enough for a vote.)

 

What about the rest of the players?

 

 

 

I get a genuine feeling from Marsh but I guess he would be annoyed by SK as mafia as well. Feeling a lot better about him now though. 

Ley is a hard read. Nothing he has written is "wrong". If Dice is mafia  then maybe Ley´s thoughts on him D1 could mean that they are mafia together. For now ok/don´t know.

 

Ley, I would really apprichiate a list with reasons. 

Some problems I have with Dice's content

 

- BFG noted that dice did not react to SK's self-vote the way dice normally would. Dice explained he was waiting to see what Nolder did; Nolder did the opposite of what dice expected, but he was talked out of pursuing it in a meaningful way incredibly quickly. Nothing in that sequence felt like genuine dice. I am not sure if he didn't know how to handle BFG calling him out on something very out of character for him and pretended it was a strategy as a [convenient lie], or if he plotted it in advance. In the first scenario, he's always a wolf - dice wouldn't tell a meaningless lie as a villager, he'd just explain himself. In the second scenario, I doubt he does that and then immediately disengages from it as soon as Nolder gives some rational for it. Dice is an attacker, and when he sees something suspect, he attacks. I'm not saying he'd tunnel Nolder, but he'd at least follow up and try to discern Nolder's alignment rather than just accepting his answer and never thinking about it again.

 

- His reads on re-entry have been very thin. His read on Niniel was okay, but it's a read he'd be heavily expected to make as a villager and I'd guess he's very aware of that. Moreso, a handful of weak-ish townreads and no real attack from dice are perpetually poor signs.

 

- Even in his brief entries into the game, his level of engagement and outward reach are all basically zero. Even on limited time, dice is someone who very much will at least attempt to reach out to people and try to work in his own way to figure out their alignments. His reads this game have been reactionary and sluggish. I have been in games with dice he's hopped out of his wolf range in literally 5-8 posts, not through volume, but just by showcasing his thought process and making meaningful reads he processed through his internal filter. It's utterly absent here.

 

Thanks for showing me I've been slacking in my dice read lol. I'm too used to him getting flak early and then reading him from that.

 

Think I can get caught up now but not sure yet.

Okay, didn't manage to catch up. Am at page 59.

In my mind Sooh doesn´t post much when she is mafia. Am I wrong? A lot of her posts are fluff but she has been active when she has been here. This list is not bad. I don´t remember if LZM has claimed cop before this post or not. 

 

Ok:

Tentative reads:

 

Cory

Nol
BFG

SK

Niniel

 

Clov

DJ

 

Ironeyes

LZM

 

Dice

Ley

 

 

I'm scratching my head a lot over the Clov/DJ/Ironeyes/LZM-range, I'm not entirely sure if they are light town or null reads at this point, but this is as close as I get right now I think.

 

 

Sooh - what do you think of LZM´s claim? Why did you change your mind about Clov? I never understood why you had him as town before (I don´t think you said it anywhere) but now he is town but less so than others. To me it looked like he was on top on your list. So I guess I want an explanation for your initial read of him and your current. 

I went back and saw that your list was made before LZM claimed. So what do you think of him now?

I need to take a break and give rl some attention. I´m not working today but my daughter and bf comes home later today and my daughter is sick. So it´s possible that I won´t post much later but will try. I have basically taken a look at everyone except for Clov. Not sure if I will. I hope to get other´s oppinions on him, how he treated Ben and how Ben treated him. 

Voting Dice is a possibility but I don´t see why we need to rush. 

Niniel tinfoils on me. That's how I know she's town lol.

In my mind Sooh doesn´t post much when she is mafia. Am I wrong? A lot of her posts are fluff but she has been active when she has been here. This list is not bad. I don´t remember if LZM has claimed cop before this post or not. 

 

Ok:

Tentative reads:

 

Cory

Nol
BFG

SK

Niniel

 

Clov

DJ

 

Ironeyes

LZM

 

Dice

Ley

 

 

I'm scratching my head a lot over the Clov/DJ/Ironeyes/LZM-range, I'm not entirely sure if they are light town or null reads at this point, but this is as close as I get right now I think.

 

 

Sooh - what do you think of LZM´s claim? Why did you change your mind about Clov? I never understood why you had him as town before (I don´t think you said it anywhere) but now he is town but less so than others. To me it looked like he was on top on your list. So I guess I want an explanation for your initial read of him and your current. 

LZM claimed at least an hour after this, after the start of D2. 

At this point in the game a cop claim isn't worth much other than perhaps making me want to delay actively lynching him for a day or two. It's not until more people have died and we know who the actual cops are, whether or not he is one, that the peeks and claims become valuable. 

 

I don't understand why you say I changed my mind of Clov. I peeked him scum N0 but read him town D1, and have him as a town read here, albeit a lighter town read than a bunch of others. My treatment of Clov D1 is a combination of "see what he says when there's no pressure" and "I'm drunk and want to flirt and be friends with everyone". 

Voting Dice is a possibility but I don´t see why we need to rush. 

More deaths more analysis?