Absolutely loving the show along with my wife and friends.  My one biggest gripe is not having Ishy be more talkative in the dreams.  I suppose I could double up on this and also wish the fades would talk.

 

Although I am excited to see how nonreaders will react if they suddenly show a Myrddraal start talking.  \

It will also be interesting to see how they handle Ishy in the last couple of episodes, assuming he is setting a trap at the eye of the world.

6 hours ago, Reader said:

Episode 6 - confirming that the show is not the book, it's definitly something else. 7/10.

It certainly isn’t the book. I have mixed feelings. 

26 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

At this point - emphasised by episodes 4 , 5 , 6 - the show seems to be about Rafe Judkins and his experience of being read the books when he was a child.

I think that is why the story telling actually does seem very child like.

I think it is an extraordinarily selfish and somewhat narcissistic  interpretation for a Showrunner to make for millions of people.

 

One can dislike the series as much as one wishes but this... is more of a you thing than a critque of any noteworthy mention

Edited December 10, 20213 yr by Blackbyrd

Well I am still hanging in with my like after E6.  Given we are off RJ's story board and onto Rafe and his writers board I am still enjoying the series.  There is going to be trouble ahead due to the massive rewrite but only if you are a nit picker about plot inconsistencies.    There are things to like about this Randland version and things to dislike.   Sorta like life!   

 

What is working for me is trying to separate myself from the book and just pretending the show is a new show I just stumbled across.  That saves a lot of internal angst and stress.  i am not always successful but with the help of my sponsor I get through it.  

On 12/4/2021 at 2:49 PM, Skipp said:

Except for "Child Valda", honestly the actor is killing it.

 

He immediately screamed EVIL to me.  Well done!

holding all final judgment on the show until episode 8 is done.  I was starting to get excited after episode 4.  5 & 6 were solid 7s for me.  I really want a 9 or a 10 though and am still waiting.  the pace of this show is jerky and inconsistent.  I really hope episode 7 and the lead into the dragon is not too abrupt.  Rand just hasn't gotten much attention so far. I want to feel a plot buildup in each episode, but there hasn't been enough build up.  All the side plots are entertaining but distracting a bit from the overall story. 

I really hope episode 7 & 8 take this home.  As a fan I will always watch, and I know future seasons can make improvements.  But I don't want the low 55 metacritic score and user falloff to tank the show.  Hopefully the hype can sustain.  Don't want this to join the graveyard of canceled shows.  

Just now, Pandemonium said:

holding all final judgment on the show until episode 8 is done.  I was starting to get excited after episode 4.  5 & 6 were solid 7s for me.  I really want a 9 or a 10 though and am still waiting.  the pace of this show is jerky and inconsistent.  I really hope episode 7 and the lead into the dragon is not too abrupt.  Rand just hasn't gotten much attention so far. I want to feel a plot buildup in each episode, but there hasn't been enough build up.  All the side plots are entertaining but distracting a bit from the overall story. 

I really hope episode 7 & 8 take this home.  As a fan I will always watch, and I know future seasons can make improvements.  But I don't want the low 55 metacritic score and user falloff to tank the show.  Hopefully the hype can sustain.  Don't want this to join the graveyard of canceled shows.  

This ^^

If Rafe sticks the landing, this is going to be a fantastic season 1. If he doesn't, it could struggle to gain traction for S2.

On 12/9/2021 at 2:59 AM, Kudzu said:

 

I'm sure it's a bad idea to ask this, but what is "the message"?

 

Well in most conversations/forums it's a bit of a can of worms, to go into this.

But essentially it's the current social narrative that is "popular" at the moment.

At the moment in the post meeto era, you typically see this as men is bad, can't do anything right, gets the bumbling idiot slapstick character etc. etc.

Female characters act like men, male dito act like females and so forth.

Just to emphasize this is not a strong vs. weak thing, it's that the persona's are reversed.

Writers for some reason don't get this and it doesn't work.

They think that to create a strong female character it needs to be/act like a man.

 

You see this all over the place in episode 1.

In the books this is not the case at all, the men fight, the women fight when necessary, certain culture's like the Aiel don't follow this structure and so forth.

Even with that mindset, the bloody thing that they want to portray is already in the books...but better.

 

Other examples of this is characters like Rey in SW.

Luke had to train for a long time, Rey learns it in 15 min and bests Kylo who has trained for a long time, ok.

Fin is the slapstick guy, whoopdido.

It's poor and lazy writing.

 

To see that type of writing messing up WoT is really sad.

 

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

This ^^

If Rafe sticks the landing, this is going to be a fantastic season 1. If he doesn't, it could struggle to gain traction for S2.

I totally agree, except I might substitute very good for fantastic.  Now that they are going to Shayol Ghul I think it might be awesome for the DO to try and convince the Dragon to help stop the wheel of time so he can end the endless cycle of suffering.  Echo our barkeep DF's rap.  The DR comes back to the present reality and taps the Eye and cleans up the rif raff at Tarwin's gap.  Hopefully thins out the Foresaken or Moraine does it for him.  Then the plot problem begins because the DO's hound is still in TV with Matt.  Everyone knows that DF's take the easy route and so he would watch the one in his hand instead of risking the Way's although perhaps Liandrin takes him with her to try and stop our hero's from trying to stop the dastardly plot at the EOTW.  Just rambling at this point sorry!! ?

35 minutes ago, Ajimbura said:

 

 

 

Other examples of this is characters like Rey in SW.

Luke had to train for a long time, Rey learns it in 15 min and bests Kylo who has trained for a long time, ok.

Fin is the slapstick guy, whoopdido.

It's poor and lazy writing.

 

To see that type of writing messing up WoT is really sad.

 

This is not a Star wars forum so I will be brief.  This argument is incredibly tired.  We see Luke practice once with the lightsaber during his jaunt to the remains of Alderaan.  It is implied he trained between the first and 2nd movie and we see no actual fight training with Yoda before he takes on Vader.

 

Rey, who is already somewhat proficient with another melee weapon( her quarterstaff) is able to keep up with a severely wounded Kylo Ren.  As shown several times in the movie Chewies Bowcaster blows people up!  Kylo took a gut shot and was bleeding badly while fighting Finn.  I would say he is quite a bit weaker when facing off against Rey.

 

As for men getting to be bad ass in the WoT show.

We see Perrin savagely kill a Trolloc

We see 20 year retired Tam wound one before losing due to an enclosed space(I do wish he had gotten to take out a couple like the books though)

We get to see Thom put a knife through Dana's throad

We see Thom be pretty awesome in a losing fight against the Fade.

Lan absolutely wrecks any Trolloc that Appears during the Winternight fight, often taking on multiple opponents.

Lan scouting back and forth while they are fleeing keeps coming back with minor wound showing that he is still fighting.

I personally enjoyed seeing the warders during the forest fight but people mileage will vary.

Soon we will be in Sheniar and it looks to have more badass soldiers.

45 minutes ago, Ajimbura said:

At the moment in the post meeto era, you typically see this as men is bad, can't do anything right, gets the bumbling idiot slapstick character etc. etc.

Female characters act like men, male dito act like females and so forth.

Just to emphasize this is not a strong vs. weak thing, it's that the persona's are reversed.

Ya...though I'd go a bit further. The guys in the story are inept, weak, stupid, or evil. While the women, are strong, intelligent, skilled...good. The director or writers can't seem to grasp just had poorly this cheapens women characters. (Ghostbusters 2016 is a good example where not a single male character is on equal footing with any of the women)

58 minutes ago, Ajimbura said:

you typically see this as men is bad, can't do anything right, gets the bumbling idiot slapstick character etc. etc.

 

58 minutes ago, Ajimbura said:

You see this all over the place in episode 1.

Where? Where is a man that is bad, bumbling, or slapstick in E1? (or in any of the episodes for that matter?) Just because we've seen some of the women be awesome doesn't mean that the men have been portrayed in the manner you suggest.

19 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

Where? Where is a man that is bad, bumbling, or slapstick in E1? (or in any of the episodes for that matter?) Just because we've seen some of the women be awesome doesn't mean that the men have been portrayed in the manner you suggest.

 

I went back and looked for this specifically in episodes 1 through 3 and I couldn't find a single example. 

 

About the only two that I found that might possibly be considered as such were Egwene's father being worried about her and Egwene's response to Rand after he challenged Moiraine.   For the later, you can find several examples of Egwene acting the same way in the books.

 

Maybe, I'm just missing them. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I went back and looked for this specifically in episodes 1 through 3 and I couldn't find a single example. 

 

About the only two that I found that might possibly be considered as such were Egwene's father being worried about her and Egwene's response to Rand after he challenged Moiraine.   For the later, you can find several examples of Egwene acting the same way in the books.

 

Maybe, I'm just missing them. 

 

 

Lan has definitely been made to look incompetent thus far, probably not intentionally. Lan gets tracked, losses track of the EF5 in Shadar Logoth, gets dosed unaware with sleeping medicine while his friend kills himself, almost gets killed by Logaine,  and probably more examples.I think the man hating arguments exist primarily because the men haven't had many big wins on screen yet.  Alot of this is a product of having too much story and not enough time to tell it.  Perrin has gotten the most onscreen displays of power but he had his thunder stolen by killing his wife and some of his  Whitcloaks escape was aided by Egwene.  Rand has been non existent other than knocking open a door in episode 3.  Matt looks a scoundrel who was dumb enough to take a tainted dagger and then abandon his friends at the Ways.  

 

Episode 7 & 8 should change this hopefully very soon as Rand gets more screen time.  I'm also hoping Lan is revered more once he reaches the borderlands where he is greatly respected. the wheel is all about balance and the women do have the power in the 1st few books.  it doesn't really shift until book 4

  

7 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

Ya...though I'd go a bit further. The guys in the story are inept, weak, stupid, or evil. While the women, are strong, intelligent, skilled...good. The director or writers can't seem to grasp just had poorly this cheapens women characters. (Ghostbusters 2016 is a good example where not a single male character is on equal footing with any of the women)

Mat’s backstory was cheapened. His father made to be a real piece of work

 

7 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

Where? Where is a man that is bad, bumbling, or slapstick in E1? (or in any of the episodes for that matter?) Just because we've seen some of the women be awesome doesn't mean that the men have been portrayed in the manner you suggest.

*Disclaimer: I love the female leads, it’s because of them I’m enjoying the show at all. But I think the men have been bad in multiple ways both blatant and subtle. So, male leads are what I’m critiquing script/plot wise. And I like the actors just not how they’re being utilized. Also, I’m pointing out how it comes across to me, if you didn’t see it this way I envy you/glad you are liking it.*

 

I’m going to focus on the bad regarding the quote above. I thought it was a three pronged statement that was talking about cinema in general but I could be mistaken and it’s a ways back so I’m not going back to find it, but I will just focus on the bad because it’s the only one that I feel truly applies to WOT. I’ll try my best to limit myself to E1, but no promises. 
 

1) They go out of their way to give added exposition to women in general for the women’s circle. There is nothing wrong with this, but they completely cut anything showing male leadership and the village council. Yes, the complete lack of something does count as a negative because it implies a lot to the viewer. It tells you what is important and what is not to the viewer, but also,  now non-book readers  won’t understand there is a duality of things regarding leadership in the Two Rivers. It’s blatantly women are in charge or at the very least implied. This mixed with extremely negative changes for two of the male leads that are also injected compounds the issue greatly. (Yes, time is an issue, but a line like, “women’s circle is women’s business; and village council is men’s business” or “village council is men’s business; women’s circle is women’s business,” would have been an easy way to do it when Rand asks Egwene how it went.
 

2) Abel - goes from a class act father and mentor to his son who also walks to Tar Valon looking for his kid with Tam; to a bloody flamin piece of trolloc dung and a coward. Explaining Mat’s quarterstaff ability is now potentially shifting somewhere else too. Could have had him fighting like a boss protecting his family (maybe with Mat?) which would have been an easy way for a call back later as to why Mat is talented with a quarterstaff. They go out of their way to highlight women fighting in the town (close up of women and Daise Congar/Nynaeve fighting with scream of defiance and as a battlefield medic) but men are cowering (Abel), hiding with sisters in woods could have told them to go there (mat is or should be a capable fighter), or accidentally killing their wives. (I’ll get to Perrin next). NEGATIVE 
 

3) Master Luhan/Perrin - (pretty sure he fought with other men in the book in Emond’s Field). The mentor in town to Perrin is not only completely excised from the story, what is added is a wife Perrin never had which had a very weird dynamic with him and then greatly diminishes his character when he kills her... He’s way worse now than he ever was when Faile was captured in the books and his motivations are vastly and irrevocably altered. Also, didn’t he have a large family? I guess they’re…somewhere? (I think this is truly a travesty of character development not to mention they even take more of his character development away from him when captured by Whitecloaks and give it to Egwene! Gah, sorry not E1 reference but still.) NEGATIVE

 

4) Mat- goes from bagging badgers / pie pilfering shenanigans that are cheeky and fun to shenanigans that are just cruel and tragic. Fun prankster to what is clearly a thief with some potential depression due to his situation at home. This is just tepid to me, but again…a NEGATIVE, but at least he loves his sisters. He could have taken them to the oak and then have him return and inject some quarterstaff fighting so we know he’s capable…or fight to get to his sisters and then go hide. Wasted opportunity.

5) Tam- kills three Trollocs in the first book and is reduced to not even killing one in the show. Why? Because of time? Funding? Staging? Meh. They had plenty of ability to add a couple more to Tam’s kill list thus truly highlighting his blademaster role more. Also, he’s no longer a leader in the town on the village council as aforementioned. (Yeah, yeah, it’s been years since Tam has touched the sword, at least we got Narg, but we know he competes yearly in Beltine fighting competitions at least so I’m not convinced he wouldn’t be handy or capable).

6) Rand- Yes, Rand kills Narg with an arrow but I always thought his first kill with the blade although more of an accident than anything was very symbolic. He is consistently having key character development sacrificed in order to keep up the mystery. It has made him a bland character with little development and will likely have non-book audience members scratching their heads during the reveal, because his journey has been so lackluster and underwhelming. In episode 1 they not only completely cut the fever dreams. They cut him struggling to hide in the woods getting his father to safety. (Maybe flashback I guess. We will see). Other misses later in season: No lightning on the road, no training with acrobatics, no instrument training, all character development with Thom or Lan this far is also not present or greatly diminished, no warding off whitecloaks with a heron marked blade...these aren’t individually critical but something else to make me see growth would be nice other than just heartfelt words again and again. NEGATIVE

 

7) Thom - is completely cut from episode 1 too. (Say what you will about time etc. another positive male presence that isn’t there). Would have easily given him built in trust being there and fighting. NEGATIVE 

 

Out of the three main women vs. the three main men, the women have far more wow moments, good character development, and even additions that are high quality…for the men they are simply cut to ribbons, given trash additions, and not a one of them has really done anything other than have emotional driven dialogue (which is okay to have sparingly) but they are constantly leaning on it in the writing room while the women are strong and get the job done go getters. The men are all licking wounds or whinging about something. Honestly, the men are difficult for me to even like at the moment. Their character development so far is dog-water. Yes, this is just my opinion and I know I will likely get clapback for saying so, but we are six episodes in and Mat is the only one who I think should remotely get a pass because of the dagger. And again, I’m angry with the writing. Not the actors at all. The women are great and I don’t begrudge them that in the slightest but I do the script when it is at the expense of a male characters arc and book actions being given to them or having the men lowered with the purpose of elevating the women. (Egwene with Perrin/Valda this 100% should have been a wow moment for Perrin). (or Nynaeve getting a knife to Lan’s throat…please). but they are currently the only lead characters I enjoy at the moment. Moiraine, Egwene, and Nynaeve. Anyway, there are many issues I’ve seen. I just hope they stick the landing as you put it. But I really don’t think these are unfair assessments up to this point and they really have their work cut out for them. 

Edited December 11, 20213 yr by JaimAybara
Spelling

I'm just completely heartbroken by what this show is doing.  This is my favorite fiction of all time.  I grew up with Star Wars and was a huge fan, but I've read these books at least 1 time each since book 3 when I first read on a bus ride in college.  These books just became part of my life and through each release I've loved or hated almost every character other than Loial.  I've bought multiples of the books and own the audio books and I'm listening to them again on the way to work.  I started a few weeks before launch of the show and I'm almost through book 3.

I watched the sanderson video the other night and I'm trying to accept adaptation but even if I could forcing the identity politics, semi nudity, and GoT type darkness into WoT just feels wrong to me.  The Edmonds Fielders losing their innocence changes things from the start.  Lan not being a solid stoic rock along with other things (guess the dagger story line is done).  It all just feels wrong and that this series wasn't really written for the true fans of this series.  I'm glad some of you enjoy it and for new people to learn some about WoT is great but this just doesn't feel like the story I know and love.  It seems silly but I really feel hurt over this stuff.  It's just a book but it just feels bad...

3 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

Where? Where is a man that is bad, bumbling, or slapstick in E1? (or in any of the episodes for that matter?) Just because we've seen some of the women be awesome doesn't mean that the men have been portrayed in the manner you suggest.

I will probably regret this but I am going to bite.  I think the show's take on men and women has actually subtly reduced both of them.  An emphasis was placed on empowering women which is good.  The manner it has occurred reduces everyone in my mind.  It has not been enough that woman are competent and have power but men have to be debased.  I had a long post I typed that got eaten when my work comp refreshed without me saving.  Instead I am going to just highlight some things in Ep 1.

 

Book Tam Good father, old soldier, training and experience comparable to warders, doesn't suffer fools.

Show scenes.  Tam is kind, nostalgic, waxes on about dead wife drinking and sweet berry stories.  Unloads brandy while Rand drinks with friends ( not happening with real old soldier), Finds town louts getting drunk amusing and hopes they have a great time.  Acts as sweet placeholder to direct Eg to sulking Rand.  Drops some truth in Inn with Marin but never acts like war or appearance of Aes Sedai deserves more attention.  Excellent scene at Beltine. Overwhelmed by tough Trolloc after good showing.  Never discusses bigger world with Rand.  Never warns about Aes Sedai.  Is given no agency with decision to be healed.  Never tries to go with EF5 to protect them.  Nods weakly as EF5 rides off with Moraine.  He is not bad but he is also not the Ned Stark type rock character he was in books.

 

Book Bran.  Solid Mayor, jovial but good understanding of local politics and keeps town in check.  In show Marin takes over as town mayor(cool) while Bran becomes simpering helicopter parent whose fragile disposition has to be assuaged by Eg before he gets pushed aside by Daise.  He also makes sure Tam brought enough brandy to keep town louts drunk.  Also follows Marin to bed like whipped puppy and assures all that Aes Sedai just there for celebration.  Bran has become bad housewife from 60s sitcom.  

 

Book Abel. Roguish, good horsetrader, good armsman, good father.  Show Abel is unredeemable.  Publicly embarrasses wife with infidelity in tiny little town.  Has driven her to become unfixable alcoholic that calls daughters bitches.  Worse when kids might be in true danger he cowers in hiding and scowls at Mat for suggesting finding them.  Honestly I can't see how a matriarchal small village would allow Abel and Natti to exist.  Marin and Nyn would have removed kids and chased them out of town.  How does Tam allow someone like Abel to exist?

 

Show Perrin has some weird relationship with wife that suggests he has been engaged in some public mooning over Egwene.  So show Perrin is kind of an immature turd that also embarrasses his wife publicly.  And then while panicked he accidently murders her.  On about 8th rewatch I started to actually like Laila.  Giving them a more coherent back story would have made her death very emotionally devastating.

 

If it had only been first episode I would find story needs or time restraints a logical explanation.  Pattern continued throughout series so it has to be intentional.  Fisherman for 45 years can't undo knot.  Warder with lifetime of best training makes tactical errors, drops his shoulder, can't ride bucking mare.  Almost no male soldiers in odd Tower Guard. 

 

Here is the kicker.  In books the warders, and old soldiers, and local leaders were strong cagey old wolves.  In the show they are Labrador retrievers adopted from the pound and saved and nurtured by their women.  In the books these old wolves followed strong women and bowed to their intelligence and ability.  In the show they mostly meet their emotional needs and happily lay at the end of the couch.

I love the books, my favorite High Fantasy series of all time.

 

Overall, I'm enjoying the series. Years ago, I enjoyed reading Terry Brooks as well, but the MTV Shannara show didn't work for me. The WOT, while far from perfect, is a much, much better adaptation than Shannara.

 

I agree with some of the passionate criticism I've read from die-hard fans. Some of the changes are hard to swallow. But I'm hopeful the series improves over time. 

27 minutes ago, Guire said:

I think the show's take on men and women has actually subtly reduced both of them. 

I will add to this the fact that Rand- Egg dynamic is being quite purposefully altered and reversed, as if somebody ( I am looking at you, Rafe) was taking their guilty pleasure in rewriting their non-romance into earlier incarnation of Gawyn's. That scene with a berry in a pocket replaced Rand reminiscences of Egg following him around like a puppy ever since she was 6. Him asking for his privacy in the blankets made me raise an eyebrow. Nyn would have boxed their ears if they started sleeping together, regardless if Egg is now  a year older. The Travels of Jain Farstrider is *his* favorite book that he used to read over and over, not Egg's. And it is him who would refresh the failing Bela's strength, not Moraine. All of his boyish charm is gone, replace with sulking of the would be dropped boyfriend. This might be minor, but I am very partial to Rand in the story, especially his younger self.

 

Also, I know this is done to 'conceal' the DR, but him channeling for the first time to refresh Bela so Egg can ride to safety was one of the most important aspects of his character.

 

Edited December 11, 20213 yr by dorotea
have more thoughts

12 minutes ago, dorotea said:

I will add to this the fact that Rand- Egg dynamic is being quite purposefully altered and reversed, as if somebody ( I am looking at you, Rafe) was taking their guilty pleasure in rewriting their non-romance into earlier incarnation of Gawyn's. That scene with a berry in a pocket replaced Rand reminiscences of Egg following him around like a puppy ever since she was 6. Him asking for his privacy in the blankets made me raise an eyebrow. Nyn would have boxed their ears if they started sleeping together, regardless if Egg is now  a year older. The Travels of Jain Farstrider is *his* favorite book that he used to read over and over, not Egg's. And it is him who would refresh the failing Bela's strength, not Moraine. All of his boyish charm is gone, replace with sulking of the would be dropped boyfriend. This might be minor, but I am very partial to Rand in the story, especially his younger self.

 

Also, I know this is done to 'conceal' the DR, but him channeling for the first time to refresh Bela so Egg can ride to safety was one of the most important aspects of his character.

 

Taking time to show refreshing horses while dropping Bela part was wasted screen time IMHO.  It served no story purpose while thumbing nose at us Bela fans.  Yep the Rand Eg relationship has been reversed.  I think lots of this sounded clever in writing room but execution feel apart with covid and need to center Moraine.  

6 hours ago, Chivalry said:

I love the books, my favorite High Fantasy series of all time.

 

Overall, I'm enjoying the series. Years ago, I enjoyed reading Terry Brooks as well, but the MTV Shannara show didn't work for me. The WOT, while far from perfect, is a much, much better adaptation than Shannara.

 

I agree with some of the passionate criticism I've read from die-hard fans. Some of the changes are hard to swallow. But I'm hopeful the series improves over time. 

I've seen similar sentiments expressed since the show premiered:

 

"Enjoying the show but hope it improves."

 

My interpretation of that is - not very good.  Or - okay but it could be better.

 

I don't think either of my above interpretations is too far off from - Not what  I expected.  Or maybe even - I see what they're doing, but I really don't care for the show.

 

Accurate, or am I reaching?

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I've seen similar sentiments expressed since the show premiered:

 

"Enjoying the show but hope it improves."

 

My interpretation of that is - not very good.  Or - okay but it could be better.

 

I don't think either of my above interpretations is too far off from - Not what  I expected.  Or maybe even - I see what they're doing, but I really don't care for the show.

 

Accurate, or am I reaching?

I'm glad the show made it to television and that it's not like that Sword of Truth garbage. Of course, the source material is far superior.

 

I enjoy the show, look forward to the episodes. I wish some things had not been changed. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the WOT team (Covid, Amazon preconditions/limitations, difficulty of adapting a series that spends a bulk of the time in the heads of the characters).

 

Now, I suppose if they go full-on "Team Shazam" with the Dragon reveal...I'll lose it completely! But I don't think they're going to alter the core of the story...just too difficult to pull off.

To this day I still can't make up my mind on the show and haven't yet entered my vote.

I swing from moments of loving being able to see certain things on screen to despising what they have cut out or altered. I particularly despise on first viewing where the show has changed the book canon physics (ie: souls not bound to gender, etc).  I also despised (at first) how Moiraine isn't as learned and knowledgeable as she was in the books.

Like others, I have intensely disliked several of the episodes on first viewing, but most of them have been better after re-watching them, eventually gaining an understanding (of sorts) of where the show is taking one or another aspect of the books. 

Some of the things I'm having a hard time accepting:

• The show leaving out the ability of Channellers to recognize others of the same gender who can touch the source (and their relative strength in the OP).  
• Perrin's nerfed / temporary change to having golden eyes (maybe it will be permanent later?), and his ability to talk to the wolves.  They NEED to show it/demonstrate the exchanges.  Maybe they just haven't figured out how to do so without it being cheesy, but damnit, it is important. 
• The show not demonstrating regularly that Lan is among the best with the sword (so that when he later is mentioned as THE best, it won't fall flat).
• They show hasn't demonstrated or even alluded to the Warder Bond bestowing increased strength, quickness, and ability to withstand pain.  I was told it is in the XRay extras, but I haven't found it there and it NEEDS to be demonstrated or at least spoken of in show.  
• The show hasn't spoken of the increased life expectancy in years of channellers.  Is the show going to keep this???  Scenes in Tar Valon could have easily inserted this.
• The importance of the heron markings.

I also think that Amazon hamstrung the show by demanding only 8 episodes per season.  That is a truly boneheaded decision that makes it FAR too hard to keep many of the best elements of the books from being adapted.

I have several others gripes, but this post isn't intended by me to simply bash/grieve.  I am still watching because there are elements I love. I also desperately want to see in future episodes the iconic scenes from the books. 

 

The next chance the show has to give us something iconic on screen is when the DR saves the Shienarans at Tarwin's Gap before ascending into Tel'aran'rhiod to fight Ba'alzamon.  Someone in one of the threads stated they think that scene can be cut.  I wholeheartedly disagree, as that is the scene that brings the Shienaran's to his side.

15 hours ago, Skipp said:

This is not a Star wars forum so I will be brief.  This argument is incredibly tired.  We see Luke practice once with the lightsaber during his jaunt to the remains of Alderaan.  It is implied he trained between the first and 2nd movie and we see no actual fight training with Yoda before he takes on Vader.

 

Rey, who is already somewhat proficient with another melee weapon( her quarterstaff) is able to keep up with a severely wounded Kylo Ren.  As shown several times in the movie Chewies Bowcaster blows people up!  Kylo took a gut shot and was bleeding badly while fighting Finn.  I would say he is quite a bit weaker when facing off against Rey.

 

As for men getting to be bad ass in the WoT show.

We see Perrin savagely kill a Trolloc

We see 20 year retired Tam wound one before losing due to an enclosed space(I do wish he had gotten to take out a couple like the books though)

We get to see Thom put a knife through Dana's throad

We see Thom be pretty awesome in a losing fight against the Fade.

Lan absolutely wrecks any Trolloc that Appears during the Winternight fight, often taking on multiple opponents.

Lan scouting back and forth while they are fleeing keeps coming back with minor wound showing that he is still fighting.

I personally enjoyed seeing the warders during the forest fight but people mileage will vary.

Soon we will be in Sheniar and it looks to have more badass soldiers.

 

Regarding SW, it's an example not a way to discuss SW.

As you say the training is implied, where is the training implied with Rey?

Luke also trains with Yoda before even confronting DV.

Rey holds her own with Kylo in the very first movie she is in.

Put a one week boxing trainee with a pro boxer and see have far that goes.

Just saying it's stupid and lazy writing.

 

Regarding the portraying of men you miss the point entirely.

It's not about acts of violence that makes the men.

Does the men act like men do?

Whomever is the writer don't really know.

Where were the men in the attack of the village?

Does Lan act like the character in the books?

Does Morraine treat Lan as the character in the books?

Top of all, does the books portray men and women like this or is "the message" injected into the series?

 

Just the first sentance out of Morraine says that the men are guilty of the taint due to their arrogance.

Not sure how book-spoilers are done here in this thread but lets say that this is far from the books.

 

Others have written more examples, so I'll stop there.

 

Edited December 11, 20213 yr by Ajimbura

15 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

Where? Where is a man that is bad, bumbling, or slapstick in E1? (or in any of the episodes for that matter?) Just because we've seen some of the women be awesome doesn't mean that the men have been portrayed in the manner you suggest.

 

It was an example on what "the message" is, as an answer to that question.

Not meant as an example of every single thing that need to be in a movie or series to qualify as injecting this type of message.

Also another character of this is that it usually is blatantly done without any finesse.

 

I can recommend to check the YT-channel "Disparu", he pretty much covers everything and it will be quicker than me typing it all.