15 hours ago, Andra said:

 

I have no idea why you read them that way.

 

His point was only to address your hope that after spending the first season trashing the source material, the show would change course and adhere more closely to the books.  By pointing out that it's completely backwards of what's typically done.

Typically, as demonstrated recently with Game of Thrones or Harry Potter, the early selections stick the closest to the source, in order to draw in the built-in fan base of readers.  Only after that fan base expands to non-readers do the adaptations deviate significantly from the source.

 

 

I think I know why. His idea is implausible without an explanation of how that can happen. Rather than defend or explain that implausibility, attack is the best defense. 

On 3/16/2022 at 1:31 PM, William Seahill said:

How did the show hold up for me?  I can’t wait to see what happens next season.  At the same time, while it’s good that Rafe brought WoT to a broader audience, he’s going to need to follow the source material a little more closely in order to reach longtime book fans and keep them engaged (without driving away that broader audience).  

I’m halfway through EotW, and noticing narrative differences between it and s1.  (For example, Rand and Mat meeting Thom in EF, and not in some mining town after escaping SL.)

Meeting Thom outside of Emond's Field is the least of the changes.  Keep reading...

On 3/18/2022 at 8:37 PM, William Seahill said:

You’re saying that the show should only be aimed at “true fans”.  That’s how your posts read.  

I can see why @Juan Farstrider is frustrated.  His posts don't read that way at all.

Pretty average show for me.  The 55 metacritic score is a little low, but I wouldn't give it more than a 70.  I did tell many people about the show and they all started watching it. Unfortunately none of them finished it.  

 

This show has too many characters and plotlines for the amount of time they give each episode and the number of episodes per season.  Also way too much time given on minor characters

  Works great in the books, but is really unfocused for the streaming series.  I hope they can salvage this, but it is not a masterpiece show yet.

On 3/20/2022 at 3:03 PM, Pandemonium said:

Pretty average show for me.  The 55 metacritic score is a little low, but I wouldn't give it more than a 70.  I did tell many people about the show and they all started watching it. Unfortunately none of them finished it.  

 

This show has too many characters and plotlines for the amount of time they give each episode and the number of episodes per season.  Also way too much time given on minor characters

  Works great in the books, but is really unfocused for the streaming series.  I hope they can salvage this, but it is not a masterpiece show yet.

I agree, s1 had a lot to say and not enough time to say it.  I’m not sure if this was the case, but it felt to me like there were fewer episodes in s1 than the writers and director had originally planned.  They should’ve cut any unnecessary plotlines and characters, introduced Thom in ep1 (my personal gripe), and focused on Moiraine getting the DR to Tar Valon and the Eye. 

1 hour ago, William Seahill said:

 They should’ve cut any unnecessary plotlines and characters

yeah, the showrunners can't complain about not getting the episode count you want when you spend 2 entire episodes on your own pet project that didn't really need to be covered in season 1.

On 3/23/2022 at 3:59 PM, Cauthonfan4 said:

yeah, the showrunners can't complain about not getting the episode count you want when you spend 2 entire episodes on your own pet project that didn't really need to be covered in season 1.

There were more episodes planned for s1 than what we got?!  Also, what pet project?  Tell me more, please, I’m interested. 

1 hour ago, William Seahill said:

There were more episodes planned for s1 than what we got?

They wanted 10 but only got 8.

1 hour ago, William Seahill said:

Also, what pet project?  Tell me more, please, I’m interested. 

The stepin story arc is what I'm talking about.

The tv series deserve -1 and i am being generous here. It was on the same level as Legend of the seeker and Eragon.

On 3/29/2022 at 7:06 AM, DavyDrones said:

The tv series deserve -1 and i am being generous here. It was on the same level as Legend of the seeker and Eragon.

I thought it was awful. It strayed way too far from the books. Sets look cheap. 

3 hours ago, Ryrin said:

I thought it was awful. It strayed way too far from the books. Sets look cheap. 

I agree. It is nothing like the books.

Am I glad the the WoT got a TV series? As a long time reader of the book pretty much since it came out, Yes.

 

Will I be a loyal viewer of the TV series? No, while I am not adverse to changes, they made too many for me to be able to like it. I held on hoping for the best but when I got to episode 7 and they had the Maiden of the Spear fighting and killing without her veil up, that did me in. I could have swore they even referenced they only fight veiled in one of the earlier episodes. I tried to look past a lot to support the show but this did me in.

 

I wish the show great success, but this is the Wheel of Time in name only. Books are always better, but they changed too much for me. I do hope others like it and that will get them to read the books.

Dust has settled on Season 1.

I tried watching it again to see if the expectation of what it should be coloured my opinion of what it was.

Can say it didn't.  The show is just bad.

Terrible directing and story telling.

Poor special effects and most of all, really poor character development.

I read somewhere that season 2 may not air until 2023.   It may be that Amazon has decided to let a significant time pass so people somewhat forget Season 1 and can start with some renewed optimism.  I hope someone has reined in Rafe Judkins because if Season 2 is his story (as Season 1 was), it's going to be the same rubbish.

 

Edited April 12, 20223 yr by Maximillion

4 hours ago, Maximillion said:

Dust has settled on Season 1.

I tried watching it again to see if the expectation of what it should be coloured my opinion of what it was.

Can say it didn't.  The show is just bad.

Terrible directing and story telling.

Poor special effects and most of all, really poor character development.

I read somewhere that season 2 may not air until 2023.   It may be that Amazon has decided to let a significant time pass so people somewhat forget Season 1 and can start with some renewed optimism.  I hope someone has reined in Rafe Judkins because if Season 2 is his story (as Season 1 was), it's going to be the same rubbish.

 

Good man!  You at least gave it a second go to see if personal expectations were getting in the way.  I won't do it as I just don't want the views to show up for Amazon.  I doubt Rafe will change significantly enough for season 2 to be watchable.  But I'll keep monitoring and see what the opinions on DM are.

On 3/16/2022 at 7:19 PM, William Seahill said:

So you want a show that follows the books word for word, sentence for sentence?  I’m getting the feeling that you didn’t like the show as it exists.  That’s fine, but any given adaptation that follows its source material one hundred percent, will likely be boring for most people save longtime fans of the material being adapted.  I think tv adaptions should try to get as many people interested in the story as possible. 

 

Would be interesting to hear what you thought was more interesting in the adaption of the story for TV vs the book.

Following the book does not mean word for word.

I think the show would have been great if they just followed the book.

Edited April 12, 20223 yr by Maximillion

On 4/5/2022 at 10:01 AM, michael62382 said:

Am I glad the the WoT got a TV series? As a long time reader of the book pretty much since it came out, Yes.

 

Will I be a loyal viewer of the TV series? No, while I am not adverse to changes, they made too many for me to be able to like it. I held on hoping for the best but when I got to episode 7 and they had the Maiden of the Spear fighting and killing without her veil up, that did me in. I could have swore they even referenced they only fight veiled in one of the earlier episodes. I tried to look past a lot to support the show but this did me in.

 

I wish the show great success, but this is the Wheel of Time in name only. Books are always better, but they changed too much for me. I do hope others like it and that will get them to read the books.

I think if the watchers become readers it’s likely they will re-evaluate the series. Such a disappointment. 

10 hours ago, Ryrin said:

I think if the watchers become readers it’s likely they will re-evaluate the series. Such a disappointment. 

Hard to know.  If your first exposure was to the show you might not like the books - they are too different.  I imagine that some people like both, but am guessing that is rare that people actually love both.

On 4/16/2022 at 3:28 AM, DojoToad said:

Hard to know.  If your first exposure was to the show you might not like the books - they are too different.  I imagine that some people like both, but am guessing that is rare that people actually love both.

 

*raises hand* Tis me, someone that loves both. Genuinely. Became a fan of the books when I was thirteen, fourteen, thereabouts (and re-read more recently), and managed to enjoy every episode of the television show, though obviously some more than others. Wasn't particularly difficult to do, nor did the enjoyment give me any confusion or headaches. Have rewatched all episodes again, plus E4-6 thrice, and enjoy consuming content and discussion of both media. It becomes a little tiresome to continue seeing the presumption that one can't be a fan of both, that one simply must be disappointed in the show if you truly like the books, etc. I don't find that to be the case, personally, though I have no problem whatsoever if that's true for others. 

Have you thought about how badly the writers are going to have to omit from the books or outright make up more lies since they began lying from the start? ie. Perrins character? He wasn't married, didn't kill his wife, accidentally or otherwise, didn't have a beard, wasn't the village blacksmith, merely an apprentice, etc. How are they going to write Faile into future episodes? Just make up even more lies? Why base the series on the WOT at all?  

Every major character has been twisted into someone else.

It's barely recognizable and the casting is way off. RJ was quite specific in describing everyone.

GOT at least stayed mostly true to the written word. This series I just see an endless series of future lies.

On 4/17/2022 at 12:10 PM, RGD 675 said:

Have you thought about how badly the writers are going to have to omit from the books or outright make up more lies since they began lying from the start? ie. Perrins character? He wasn't married, didn't kill his wife, accidentally or otherwise, didn't have a beard, wasn't the village blacksmith, merely an apprentice, etc. How are they going to write Faile into future episodes? Just make up even more lies? Why base the series on the WOT at all?  

Every major character has been twisted into someone else.

It's barely recognizable and the casting is way off. RJ was quite specific in describing everyone.

GOT at least stayed mostly true to the written word. This series I just see an endless series of future lies.

Spot on. 

On 4/18/2022 at 5:10 AM, RGD 675 said:

Have you thought about how badly the writers are going to have to omit from the books or outright make up more lies since they began lying from the start? ie. Perrins character? He wasn't married, didn't kill his wife, accidentally or otherwise, didn't have a beard, wasn't the village blacksmith, merely an apprentice, etc. How are they going to write Faile into future episodes? Just make up even more lies? Why base the series on the WOT at all?  

Every major character has been twisted into someone else.

It's barely recognizable and the casting is way off. RJ was quite specific in describing everyone.

GOT at least stayed mostly true to the written word. This series I just see an endless series of future lies.

 

You do know that altering storylines, adding or removing characters, changing a plotline, etc, when adapting for a television show isn't a 'lie', right? Nobody is trying to intentionally mislead or tell a false statement, for crying out loud. The books still exist and are being promoted through the existence of an additional piece of media, one which is designed to complement, not negate. 

 

It was always inevitable that things would change, and while I can totally understand if some fans can't bear the changes they have made (whether character, plot, or even change in perceived emphasis on a theme or trait), I maintain that saying it's 'barely recognisable' isn't accurate. Certainly, for me, the casting - for the most part - is one of the stronger elements of the show, and I've not had any huge moments of despair that what I'm seeing doesn't match what 13 year me imagined in my head at the time. We all imagine differently, and, after all, even some of the now quite old fancastings Jordan himself engaged in don't match the specificity you describe from the book. 

 

I tried watching GoT and frankly, while it may be more 'true to the written word', it's not the type of show I have any interest in, especially the later seasons, and I get far more enjoyment from WoT. I certainly don't feel 'lied' to. 

9 minutes ago, psmith1990 said:

 

You do know that altering storylines, adding or removing characters, changing a plotline, etc, when adapting for a television show isn't a 'lie', right? Nobody is trying to intentionally mislead or tell a false statement, for crying out loud. The books still exist and are being promoted through the existence of an additional piece of media, one which is designed to complement, not negate. 

 

It was always inevitable that things would change, and while I can totally understand if some fans can't bear the changes they have made (whether character, plot, or even change in perceived emphasis on a theme or trait), I maintain that saying it's 'barely recognisable' isn't accurate. Certainly, for me, the casting - for the most part - is one of the stronger elements of the show, and I've not had any huge moments of despair that what I'm seeing doesn't match what 13 year me imagined in my head at the time. We all imagine differently, and, after all, even some of the now quite old fancastings Jordan himself engaged in don't match the specificity you describe from the book. 

 

I tried watching GoT and frankly, while it may be more 'true to the written word', it's not the type of show I have any interest in, especially the later seasons, and I get far more enjoyment from WoT. I certainly don't feel 'lied' to. 

I appreciate what you've said here, especially the remarks about Robert's original series remaining successful regardless of how the show is received. Whether a person finds the TV show to be good, bad, or ugly, there shouldn't be any reason to feel like the original books written by Jordan are under any kind of assault. On the contrary, as you noted, I find it refreshing to have a TV adaptation to compare/contrast to my favorite fantasy book series.  And I agree, the casting/acting was my favorite part of the show (so far).

2 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

I appreciate what you've said here, especially the remarks about Robert's original series remaining successful regardless of how the show is received. Whether a person finds the TV show to be good, bad, or ugly, there shouldn't be any reason to feel like the original books written by Jordan are under any kind of assault. On the contrary, as you noted, I find it refreshing to have a TV adaptation to compare/contrast to my favorite fantasy book series.  And I agree, the casting/acting was my favorite part of the show (so far).

 

Thanks. I sort of get it if people bristle at the idea that it somehow 'taints' the original work, but that's just not how I see adaptation, personally. I can't understate how much I love being able to go into my local small bookshops and seeing literally the entire series lined up and displayed prominently. That hasn't been the case for me for a long time (they'd often have EoTW but that's it), so I'm all for increased interest in the books, even if that comes through an adaptation that some aren't keen on, tbh.

 

For me, a lot of the enjoyment is because of the changes not in spite of them - in two ways. The books, while I adore them, aren't perfect pieces of literature and so some changes I see as improvements while others very much aren't. However, having changes to different aspects of the books (for whatever reason) also means that there's also more to discuss, and reading discussion, even arguing over certain choices and possibilities for future plot, is a huge part of the fun for me. 

Edited April 19, 20223 yr by psmith1990

23 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

My only fear is that someday, someone(s) will take property of the novels (or any novel for that matter) and have the freedoms to rewrite e.g. adapt them into changed storylines. Following actions with taking Jordan's original work and labeling that as non-canon - much alike what Disney's pseudo attempt was at erasing history but settled with dividing Star Wars Canon from Legends.

 

One day, if we continue our current course of rewriting history, it may become legal to do just that... buy out IP from a novel series, rewrite it and then attempt to make the original obsolete.

 

Just an unfounded fear that keeps me up somewhere between 2.3 - 4.1 hours every night.

 

Or you end up with two classics ala Wuthering Heights and Wide Sargasso Sea - both of which stand well on their own as pieces of artistic literature, but also work in concert in a way that allows us to examine social mores, commentary on changes in attitude to colonialism and other issues, etc. 

 

While I understand the concern over IPs and making sure original works are kept and preserved, I don't particularly see any reason to fret when it comes to WoT. Fanworks and adaptations will always exist and more often than that are created out of love of the original work, even if exceptions occur if a property is very commercially viable. And even if we choose not to accept that love because it's visibly different than our own or the result of it is something that we find frustrating and/or an anathema. 

16 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

A very objective and solid basis, I do appreciate that perspective. Much thanks on your reply. While I definitely did not enjoy the WoT show, I occasionally do appreciate other works' adaptations and fan fiction. 

 

Thanks. I'm all for fanfiction, interpretations and adaptations, whatever we choose to specifically call them. It's something that's been occurring for millennia in whatever form. I mean, Dante's Inferno? Milton's Paradise Lost? Malory's Le Mort d'Arthur? Obviously not as beautiful or skilled as Rafe's attempt on Amazon, but still, eh. ?

 

Seriously, though, both properties can happily co-exist. It doesn't mean that every person will like both because there'll inevitably be differences and different people are drawn to different things. If, say, positive LGBTQIA+ representation in what you're consuming matters to you, you may find the show an improvement in some ways. If, however, you latched onto something like the description of certain battle scenes or Mat and Rand's many stops on the way to Caemlyn, there'll potentially be big gaps in your enjoyment when it comes to said show. For me, I enjoy both for different reasons. And for the aspects of the story I love that I want more of, well, yes, there's fanfiction. It all builds on something I love, grows it out, and that doesn't negate or disappear the original text!