4 minutes ago, expat said:

Slayer is too one-dimensional, but is critical to the story as Perrin's white whale.  Perrin needs to develop his skills in order to fulfill his part of the final battle. I think that it's fair to say that Rand loses the final battel without the Perrin/Slayer storyline.

 

I agree. Although I wasn't a big fan of the over the top fight scenes in the dream world that Sanderson wrote for Perrin vs Slayer, there's no doubt that Perrin needed those battles to be able to defeat the Forsaken in the dream world.

On 12/4/2021 at 3:48 AM, JenniferL said:

I agree, the Shaido, Seafolk and Kin can be cut or greatly reduced. The Bowl of the Winds can be cut or reduced. The Mat/Tylin relationship “has not aged well” and needs to be depicted as more consensual if they decide to keep it. Elayne’s succession war needs to be wrapped up far more quickly. 

The Mat/Tylin relationship I think could work really well, akin to the Bridgerton "rape" scene, where the wife rapes her husband to try and get pregnant. 

In this day and age with movies like 50 shades and the idea of a BDSM type relationship I don't think this storyline gets as much push back, it is also important to Mats development from the ladies man who has a girl in every port to then experiencing a bit of his own medicine before meeting Tuon. 

Not to drag this off topic, but Mat is a flirt and a manwhore. He’s not a rapist. There is zero chance that Rafe or Amazon will allow Tylin/Mat to play out how it does in the books. The scene in Bridgerton you mentioned is controversial and I don’t think it should have been included. 

Plenty of good ideas in this thread. Truthfully, many of us recognize there's quite a bit of 'fat' that can trimmed from the books without losing much (if anything). 

2 hours ago, JenniferL said:

Not to drag this off topic, but Mat is a flirt and a manwhore. He’s not a rapist. There is zero chance that Rafe or Amazon will allow Tylin/Mat to play out how it does in the books. The scene in Bridgerton you mentioned is controversial and I don’t think it should have been included. 

Given the reaction I've seen to the first season, and how capital C conservative some of the blow back has been, my current belief is we get Valda / Morgase and Tylin / Mat in the exact same episode in a symmetrical fashion, to make it absolutely clear. Too many people seem to be missing the point about the power dynamic between Mat and Tylin, so I expect the show to rub the audiences metaphorical noses in it.

If they decide to include it, then that would be an interesting way to parallel the two events. The way Jordan handled the repeated sexual trauma ps of Morgase was very delicate and sensitive. It’s very clear that Jordan understood how traumatic rape is. However, since afterwards Mat thinks fondly of Tylin and even goes out of his way to avenge her murder, I don’t think they would do that. Jordan was definitely of the school of thought that men can’t be assaulted and Mat’s characterization reflects that erroneous belief. We have a different sensibility now and the show will have to reflect that if they decide to include Mat/Tylin. 

Given how much Rafe has already leaned into the gender power dynamic by emphasizing women in control everywhere, I have to think he intends to tackle Mat's situation head on. And as it's the most controversial power conflict between the sexes in the series, I can't seem them taking the reputational hit of just cutting it completely. Because to be honest, that would be a chickensh*t thing to do, and everyone involved would know it.

 

And for the record, while Mat, Elayne, and Robert Jordan all thought men couldn't be assaulted in that way, Nynaeve sure as hell knew they could be. So Jordan wasn't completely ignorant.

Edited December 21, 20213 yr by Jaysen Gore

On 12/3/2021 at 10:32 AM, Sabio said:

Keep Shaido but have them decide to go back to the three-fold land after Dumai Wells.

 

Keep the cleansing but almost anything from about book 8 - 12 could be done away with.,

The cleansing yes but also, Rand’s encounter with Semirhage? The Gholam? Tower of Ghenjei? White tower split? Rand and Dragonmount? Perrin forging power-wrought weapons? These are just a few events in these books so I hope they don’t balefire all of it. I hope especially to get:

Spoiler

A Jain Farstrider redemption as a subtle subplot in the tower of Ghenjei.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 6:32 PM, Sabio said:

Keep the cleansing but almost anything from about book 8 - 12 could be done away with.,

We need the Graendal / ludicrously over the top balefiring incident to show how far Rand has gone.

12 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

Given how much Rafe has already leaned into the gender power dynamic by emphasizing women in control everywhere, I have to think he intends to tackle Mat's situation head on. And as it's the most controversial power conflict between the sexes in the series, I can't seem them taking the reputational hit of just cutting it completely. Because to be honest, that would be a chickensh*t thing to do, and everyone involved would know it.

 

And for the record, while Mat, Elayne, and Robert Jordan all thought men couldn't be assaulted in that way, Nynaeve sure as hell knew they could be. So Jordan wasn't completely ignorant.

They have already set up to make Mat / Tylin consensual with the comment in E2 that he prefers older women.

On 12/3/2021 at 12:14 PM, Masha said:

Combine Liandrin character with Elaida's or Alviarin. She is great but book Liandrin story is pretty much over after 3 books.

I would extend this to combine Liandrin character with Galina, and maybe even Elaida. Eliminate the whole Galina Shaido story. 

On 12/3/2021 at 1:24 PM, Elder_Haman said:

I don't see it, tbh. I think Elaida will remain Elaida. Liandrin is scheming and trying to gather power. It doesn't mean she is the only one doing so. If they are going to combine Liandrin with anyone, it should be Alviarin.  

Elaida and Alviarin  arcs are too different, I could see combining Massana and Alviarin, or elimination Elaida and just having Alviarin as the new Amyrilian and combine Galina, Liandrin
Cut the Shaido Sevana/Therava Galina story.  After Dumai Wells have the Shaido scattered by  Sammael (or other forsaken) with the nar'baha, and that is the end of them as a major storyline. It keeps with the "Let Chaos Reign" but eliminates all the extra scenes and story arcs that end up going nowhere. 
If Faile kidnaping is included it can be smaller group or Massama, and cut drastically, or eliminated. 

Eliminate or drastically reduce the whole Tarabon BA hunting, maybe combine it with the search for the Bowl of the winds and keep some of the Seafolk story. 
The seafolk and Kin are good world building, and help to show how the White Tower is not all it thinks it is they are also a real part of how the pattern is pulling  the younger "leaders" to think in different ways, and pull people together. (Pushed there actually by the forsaken that corrupt or eliminate the existing leaders) 

I would also cut a bunch of the Ebou Dari Tylee/Besslam/ Mat arcs. Much of that was well mat is stiing here while the books are focusing elsewhere. 

I hope they keep some of Van Luca's show, but really the books spent too much time with them with 2 different groups of characters, and I am not sure I can remember anything specific that could not be accomplished without it.  

I fully expect that we will get a different handling of Moiraine's overall storyline relative to the novels due to the fact that Rosamund Pike is the series' Lead and will remain so unless she permanently leaves.

The big reason i think Elaida remains untouched is because she's an evil AS who isn't a DF. Like Valda, I think they will want to maintain some antagonists who aren't Darkfriends.

 

 

13 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

I fully expect that we will get a different handling of Moiraine's overall storyline relative to the novels due to the fact that Rosamund Pike is the series' Lead and will remain so unless she permanently leaves.

The quickest solution for that is her story's the same until the portal, then they move Mat's piece up to the start of the next season, it works, and then she replaces Cadsuane. She's gone for almost a whole season at that point

@Jaysen Gore Moiraine is unlikely, IMO, to be absent from the TV series at all unless Rosamund Pike asks to be released from her contract.

 

IOW, we'll continue to see what's happening with her onscreen even if narrative events lead her to make an apparently fatal heroic sacrifice.

23 minutes ago, Windigo said:

Elaida and Alviarin  arcs are too different, I could see combining Massana and Alviarin, or elimination Elaida and just having Alviarin as the new Amyrilian and combine Galina, Liandrin
Cut the Shaido Sevana/Therava Galina story.  After Dumai Wells have the Shaido scattered by  Sammael (or other forsaken) with the nar'baha, and that is the end of them as a major storyline. It keeps with the "Let Chaos Reign" but eliminates all the extra scenes and story arcs that end up going nowhere. 
If Faile kidnaping is included it can be smaller group or Massama, and cut drastically, or eliminated. 

Eliminate or drastically reduce the whole Tarabon BA hunting, maybe combine it with the search for the Bowl of the winds and keep some of the Seafolk story. 
The seafolk and Kin are good world building, and help to show how the White Tower is not all it thinks it is they are also a real part of how the pattern is pulling  the younger "leaders" to think in different ways, and pull people together. (Pushed there actually by the forsaken that corrupt or eliminate the existing leaders) 

I would also cut a bunch of the Ebou Dari Tylee/Besslam/ Mat arcs. Much of that was well mat is stiing here while the books are focusing elsewhere. 

I hope they keep some of Van Luca's show, but really the books spent too much time with them with 2 different groups of characters, and I am not sure I can remember anything specific that could not be accomplished without it.  

I think we lose the seafolk, keep Tarabon and Ebou Dar to about 1/2 a season each. I really hope alviarin stays as is, with Elaida. 

 

The circus is interesting. if it wasn't for the animals, I'd think they'd be guaranteed - two different runs with the mains = about a season of episodes. but with the cost of a circus, I don't know.

5 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

@Jaysen Gore Moiraine is unlikely, IMO, to be absent from the TV series at all unless Rosamund Pike asks to be released from her contract.

 

IOW, we'll continue to see what's happening with her onscreen even if narrative events lead her to make an apparently fatal heroic sacrifice.

Or the publicly released terms are a misdirection to hide her ultimate role in the series. I don't trust that, any more than i trust IMDB or Rafe's public statements.

 

@Jaysen Gore I have an intricately researched familiarity with the nuts and bolts of television production, actor contracts, and how narrative focus for a TV series ends up being conceived, and can therefore say with confidence that Rosamund Pike being positioned as the Series Lead and primary main character is not, as you put it, a 'misdirect'.

On 12/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

We need the Graendal / ludicrously over the top balefiring incident to show how far Rand has gone.

Doesn't need to be Graendal. Can be any Forsaken, male or female, after all whomever that Forsaken is - he/she gets to escape that incident while a whole lot of his/her mind-controlled underlings (aka victims) die. The whole point to show how far Rand has gone and STILL missed his intended target.

 

If we take most middle of WOT books, they could be easily combined because all of the books combine a whole lot of travelogue which could be skipped.

1) Great Hunt - Rand/Mat/Perrin travel to get back dagger (and Horn of Valere).

2) Dragon Reborn - Rand travels to get Callendor, Perrin/Moirane to catch up with him. Mat travels to "save" Elayne

season 2 - Both these books can be combined to save time. and it looks like instead of Cairhien it will be Andor. So Rand/Mat/Perrin/Moirane travel together till Andor. After Andor, Rand leaves alone, others try to catch up. Seanchan attack could be also added in. And it all ends in Tear.

 

3) Shadow Rising - Season 3.

 

4) Fires of Heaven -  Season 4.

 

4) Lord of Chaos - Asha'man organization start, Aes Sedai two camps try to manipulate Rand - ends with Dumai Walls. Add storylines for Mat, Supergirls and Perrin from a Crown of Swords  thats Season 5.

 

5) Next 4 books (Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, Crossroads of Twilight, A Knife of Dreams) can be combined into  1  condensed season 6.

 

6) Gathering Storm and 1st part of the Towers of Midnight - thats season 7

 

7) Towers of Midnight 2nd half and a Memory of Light - season 8.