On 2/21/2025 at 3:49 PM, Samt said:

The story needs to be piloted through those events and cannot navigate them on autopilot.  

Well put. And breaking the “autopilot” - can be fine - because it sparked all those questions and interest; BUT you have to answer those questions in the next scenes. 
 

Though, we’ve seen a lot of precedence thus far, of questionable writing. I think they had good excuses (Barney leaving, writers strike)! But want to see some really good writing in S3. 
 

And I think there was good writing and a lot of clever lines in the 11 min clip we saw! So I’m hopeful. 

Edited February 25Feb 25 by DreadLord31

I don't mind if they "fast travel" to Tar Valon for the start of S3. Everyone has a reason to be with Rand.  Tar Valon is on the way to the waste.  Rand probably will want to see the girls safely to TarValon. I could see a bit of info dump in the tavern scene via dialogue. 

I expect Moraine will end up helping in the city fight against the BA. Possibly coming to Suian aid. One thing I very much would like to see out of that is the reactions of Tar Valon citizens/Tower guards to the Aiel. 

 

I think we may have some modern bias about Rand being able to be undetected in TV. They don't have television with his face plastered all over it(BREAKING NEWS-DRAGON PROCLAIMED IN FALME). In the show they don't even have the imagery of him battling the Dark One in the sky. Just a firey dragon on a tower with bunch of people standing on top. There are spies about looking for their general description but again, plot armour. 

17 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

Well put. And breaking the “autopilot” - can be fine - because it sparked all those questions and interest; BUT you have to answer those questions in the next scenes. 
 

Though, we’ve seen a lot of precedence thus far, of questionable writing. I think they had good excuses (Barney leaving, writers strike)! But want to see some really good writing in S3. 
 

And I think there was good writing and a lot of clever lines in the 11 min clip we saw! So I’m hopeful. 

For sure if you’re breaking the autopilot expectation to create intrigue and raise questions that you will later answer, it can work out well.  But you have to commit to paying off that intrigue rather than going full JJ Abrams.  Never go full JJ.

1 hour ago, Samt said:

But you have to commit to paying off that intrigue rather than going full JJ Abrams.  Never go full JJ.

What are you referring to here? Pardon my ignorance.

1 hour ago, DreadLord31 said:

What are you referring to here? Pardon my ignorance.

Mostly Lost, but also really almost everything that JJ Abrams has ever made.  Introduce mysteries because they make it interesting and people will keep watching to find out.  Then never actually have an answer for the mysteries and hope that people forget before the end.  The SW sequel trilogy is another example where he sets up a bunch of mysteries that in retrospect he never answers or explains. 
 

The general point I am making is that if you do something in the storytelling that is consciously mysterious (like a non-sequitur time jump), you have to eventually explain the mystery.  That should be obvious, but it apparently isn’t.

Edited February 25Feb 25 by Samt

2 hours ago, Samt said:

The SW sequel trilogy is another example where he sets up a bunch of mysteries that in retrospect he never answers or explains.

Certainly all of us would like to forget the Disney Star Wars Trilogy… 

 

But for WoT S3 I think they already did a number of really smart writing things in 10 min we saw. Which makes me hopeful we’re not going full JJ (as you say)

For example, 

Spoiler

Setting up Siuan to be deposed and stilled

by simply having Siuan say to a bunch of true accusations from Liandrin “If you had proof the Hall would have no choice but to…” 

 

Having Moiraine say, “Todays not about her (Siuan)” … which sets up with one line that they have a plan/have reunited. 

Showing us a bunch of angreals (SAD bracelet, Balefire rod, dreamweavers, other ones I forget but are really important) and then having Liandrin say, “Did you get it?” which introduces mystery at what they were after but also tells you that killing Aes Sedai in the Hall wasn’t their objective. 
 

 

On 2/25/2025 at 6:27 PM, DreadLord31 said:

“Did you get it?” which introduces mystery at what they were after but also tells you that killing Aes Sedai in the Hall wasn’t their objective. 
 

 

I'm pretty sure "it" pertains to Rand? What do you think? @DreadLord31

45 minutes ago, Gudrean said:

I'm pretty sure "it" pertains to Rand? What do you think? @DreadLord31

Someone up thread said that the access ter'angreal was there.  If that's true, then isn't that the obvious target?  Wouldn't the greatest sa'angreal in history usable by women the best possible item?.

 

This might be the way to introduce the two large sa'angreals because the book's introuction wasn't filmed.

1 hour ago, expat said:

Someone up thread said that the access ter'angreal was there.  If that's true, then isn't that the obvious target?  Wouldn't the greatest sa'angreal in history usable by women the best possible item?.

 

This might be the way to introduce the two large sa'angreals because the book's introuction wasn't filmed.

But no one who had seen them knows what they are I think.

The only logical scenario that does not present world breaking issues is if 1 of the male forsaken had it stolen to deny it to the female forsaken because putting it in the hands of the black sisters or a female forsaken would make them basically unstoppable.

Just now, Mailman said:

The only logical scenario that does not present world breaking issues is if 1 of the male forsaken had it stolen to deny it to the female forsaken because putting it in the hands of the black sisters or a female forsaken would make them basically unstoppable.

Except that in book cannon none of the dark sisters are strong enough to survive using it.  Also the one taken could prove to be the damaged one found in the Panarch's collection in the books, presenting no issues if it falls into the wrong hands.

39 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

Except that in book cannon none of the dark sisters are strong enough to survive using it.  Also the one taken could prove to be the damaged one found in the Panarch's collection in the books, presenting no issues if it falls into the wrong hands.

I don't think thats book canon Angreals only amplify the power of the actual user. Weak power channelers simply get less of an upper limit.

 

It could be the broken one but that still does not explain who has the knowledge of what it is and if it's broken why would it be stolen.

I don't believe it was an access key in the 13th depository.  I do believe that in the list of stolen ter'angreal that was given to The Towerpuff girls there was a Lady in the nude statue among the list. So possible just another of the sleepweavers.

 

I could be wrong and they might change it to something else I still don't think it would be an access key.  I believe this mostly due to what they have shown us of Moiraine and the Chodan'ball.  If this is the route they have gone with I think it is a downgrade compared to the book but I'll just have to wait and watch.

I think it’s the sad bracelets. Or a part of them at least. 

13 hours ago, Mailman said:

I don't think thats book canon Angreals only amplify the power of the actual user. Weak power channelers simply get less of an upper limit.

When Verin discusses the excavated male Choedan Cal statue with Rand in TGH when they meet up in Cairhein she explicitly states that the female of the pair is on Tremalking and of current sisters only Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida are strong enough to survive using it.  Of course that could be an unreliable narrator or otherwise false (and clearly she discounted Cadsuanne being still alive).  Even with a buffer preventing burnout the channeller appears to experience amplified fatigue such that a lesser talent would perish from exhaustion when using it.

19 hours ago, Gudrean said:

I'm pretty sure "it" pertains to Rand? What do you think? @DreadLord31

I think that the Woman Figurine is just a dreamweaver. One of the content creators (Road to Tar Valon) did a video on it that was quite good. 
Pretty much all of the most significant sa’angreals are in there except for the access key (which I think Moiraine gets in Rhuidien and we saw in the teaser & is just going to be an orb). 
 

I think it makes most sense that it’s the SAD bracelet that is the “it”. Irregardless 🙂 it’ll be the inciting event for the Tanchico story line with Nynaeve Elayne and Matt for this season. (And hopefully TvThom returns!) 

@DreadLord31 That's exactly what I was thinking "it" was. They want to have it to control him. 

Spoiler

Here's to hoping we get the box storyline.

 

4 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

When Verin discusses the excavated male Choedan Cal statue with Rand in TGH when they meet up in Cairhein she explicitly states that the female of the pair is on Tremalking and of current sisters only Moiraine, Siuan and Elaida are strong enough to survive using it.  Of course that could be an unreliable narrator or otherwise false (and clearly she discounted Cadsuanne being still alive).  Even with a buffer preventing burnout the channeller appears to experience amplified fatigue such that a lesser talent would perish from exhaustion when using it.

I did not remember that quote, thanks for bringing it up.

 

It still feels wrong to me though as my understanding of Angreal is that they are an amplifier only. So if a sister with half of the power of Siuan would die using it, Siuan would die as well because while her original level was twice that of another sister her maximum level is twice that of another sister. 

 

The overall power of the Choedan Kal as described during the cleansing of Saidin also seems to indicate that normal channeling would provide no experience or usage buffer that would be meaningful.

WoTTuber Lezbi Nerdy was speculating that the "it" Liandrin asked Nyomi about was the A'dam bracelet that was the very first thing that was grabbed, and she was additionally speculating that it's one of a pair that they're looking for and the the second might be found on a statue in Tanchico, which is why Liandrin, Joiya, and other Dark Friend Aes Sedai go there (as seen in the trailers).

 

I don't personally have any idea what any of this means, but thought I'd put it out there anyway.

On the subject of minimum strength to use a sa'angreal, Lanfear also suggests that the reason the female Choedan Kal and associated access key are destroyed during the cleansing was that Nynaeve was not strong enough to use it under full control.  She states that had Rand trusted Lanfear to use to Choedan Kal, it would not have been destroyed at the cleansing.  Unreliable narrator in addition to Lanfear just being a master manipulator are what they are,  but it seems that Lanfear is meant to have told the truth in this instance.  

 

That said, we don't really get any indication that any other angreals or sa'angreals have limits on how powerful a channeler needs to be to use them.  Perhaps this is just because the limit scales with the power of the angreal and most angreal have limits so low that practically any channeler can use them.  But even Vora's sa'angreal, Callandor, and Sakarnen don't ever seem to have a lower limit on the power of their users.  That said, all of those are only ever used by fairly powerful channelers in the books.  

 

Also, my browser wants to autocomplete Choedan Kal to Choedan Kaleidoscope, and I think that should be part of the head cannon from now on.  

5 hours ago, Samt said:

On the subject of minimum strength to use a sa'angreal, Lanfear also suggests that the reason the female Choedan Kal and associated access key are destroyed during the cleansing was that Nynaeve was not strong enough to use it under full control.  She states that had Rand trusted Lanfear to use to Choedan Kal, it would not have been destroyed at the cleansing.  Unreliable narrator in addition to Lanfear just being a master manipulator are what they are,  but it seems that Lanfear is meant to have told the truth in this instance.  

 

That said, we don't really get any indication that any other angreals or sa'angreals have limits on how powerful a channeler needs to be to use them.  Perhaps this is just because the limit scales with the power of the angreal and most angreal have limits so low that practically any channeler can use them.  But even Vora's sa'angreal, Callandor, and Sakarnen don't ever seem to have a lower limit on the power of their users.  That said, all of those are only ever used by fairly powerful channelers in the books.  

 

Also, my browser wants to autocomplete Choedan Kal to Choedan Kaleidoscope, and I think that should be part of the head cannon from now on.  

The only possible thing that I have managed to come up with is the access keys bringing some form of variation to the equation as every other Angreal that we learn about is used simply by holding the actual Angreal.

On 3/1/2025 at 4:51 AM, Samt said:

Also, my browser wants to autocomplete Choedan Kal to Choedan Kaleidoscope, and I think that should be part of the head cannon from now on.

Thats better than a Chode Kaleidoscope at least