3 hours ago, Agitel said:

My biggest concern from the last episode is Rand's and Lanfear's discussion on the Pattern and the Wheel. And this may seem odd. Rand is rejecting the notion that the Pattern dictates his fate as a naive superstition. Lanfear states they weave their own fates. Now this is Lanfear, a Forsaken. This messaging would be on point for her. But I don't know that I trust the writers to stick to the series' themes here and not just embrace what Lanfear is saying. So I hope I see a reversal on this point later. 

 

Whether or not you believe in fate or higher forces in real life, it is essential to the basics of the Wheel of Time. Many character arcs, Rand's especially, are a sort of struggle and/or reliance on ta'veren nature and fate. While most people are not woven so, Rand and the others struggle with the Wheel railroading them where they need to be, literally shaping reality around him. Whatever else they do character or plotwise, this is like a fundamental, core motif of The Wheel of Time. If they were to abandon it, then what are they even doing choosing to adapt the property?

 

This might seem the most minor thing to some, but again, this is one of the core motifs of the entire series and the character arcs, the interplay of human freedom and fate. It's the very name of the series. The wheel isn't just the cycle of ages, it's what spins out the pattern.  "The wheel weaves as the wheel wills."

 

If the writers actually endorse Lanfear's sentiment here, which seems naive of me to believe, but again I don't have full faith in these writers, then I feel like that would be the most significant rejection of the source material, above anything else. Even if you still adapt most of the character and plot beats without it, it feels like missing the point. 

I've been from one side of the Randland to the other, kid, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything make me believe there's one all powerful force controlling everything...

 

Rand is Ta'veren and a young pig headed sheepherder, and Lanfear is the arrogance of power - they will refuse to accept the pattern forces them to their actions - Rand because it doesn't and Lanfear because she will be a slave to no one. I don't think they've gotten into what it really means to be Ta'veren yet, since in one way, the whole of reality hangs on their choices, and on the other, they are forced to their decision points like pigs to slaughter.

 

Multiple AS in the show have used the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and I suspect they know more about influencing events than Rand. So I wouldn't worry about this.

On 3/28/2025 at 9:27 AM, Turin Turambar said:

His roots grew out.  

The barber weaves as the barber wills...

On 3/27/2025 at 8:03 PM, Spiritweaver1 said:

The good news is that when AI starts creating these shows one could program it to reboot the series and have the show that could have been.

No. Just no. Do you think that's what RJ would have wanted?

On 3/29/2025 at 5:54 PM, Irvyne said:

Then Siuan says, "Oh look, a gray man snuck into the White Tower."

(A) I don’t believe that’s a direct quote; (B) her actual line is something more like: “gray skin, blackened fingers”; (C) Lanfear names it a “gray man”

My head canon for Suian's knowledge of Grey men is that after Verin discovered the one in the tower she informed Suian about them.  Verin knowing more than most people about obscure things just works on multiple levels.

It is Leane who mentions the Grey Man. You don’t see who is talking, the camera shot is from above as Siuan heals Elaida, but it’s clearly Leane’s voice

3 Episodes to go. Which current story arcs are they going to complete.

 

Almost certain.

Rand breaking the Aiel

White cloaks and trollocs beaten in the 2 rivers.

Tanchico (feels like we will need these characters in other places soon)

 

Maybe?

Moiraine dies (feels like it should be end of next season)

Tower divides (maybe early next season)

 

I feel even if they keep it super tight on the top 3 it will still feel fairly rushed however with the shows penchant for prioritizing other story lines I feel that it will be much worse than that.

 

The show desperately needs more episodes.

Can't see them getting all that done in three episodes. 2 rivers battle certainly  ; Rand will surely have to set the Aiel off in all directions (and subdue Asmodean ?) ;  and the characters in Tanchico will have to do something...  Will that be any kind of resolution or could that be left as something of a cliff hanger ?

 

But I reckon the Tower split - and whatever they do with Moiraine/Lanfear - will indeed have to wait for next season.  Which makes sense anyway.

 

And yes : the limited screen time for each season has been a problem from the start. Apparently not something that is going to change... 

I have a theory that I don't think I've seen anywhere, regarding Tanchico and this season -

 

Spoiler

I think Liandrin may get a bit of an Ingtar moment from the books. 

 

Nynaeve clearly has a "connection" to her, they have built the character up a lot and given her a bit of a tragic backstory. From the episode 6 teaser there is more backstory and Nynaeve says something along the lines of "this city is why she is with the Dark", something like that. 

 

Could we get a Nynaeve - Elayne - Moggy showdown and Liandrin saves them and sacrifices herself?

 

 

Best seasonso far but I have to say I'm worried about the final episode of the season.  IMO the worst episodes of season 1 and 2 were the last episodes.  I hope they don't get all crazy like they have in the past.

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I have a theory that I don't think I've seen anywhere, regarding Tanchico and this season -

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I think Liandrin may get a bit of an Ingtar moment from the books. 

 

Nynaeve clearly has a "connection" to her, they have built the character up a lot and given her a bit of a tragic backstory. From the episode 6 teaser there is more backstory and Nynaeve says something along the lines of "this city is why she is with the Dark", something like that. 

 

Could we get a Nynaeve - Elayne - Moggy showdown and Liandrin saves them and sacrifices herself?

 

Interesting theory indeed !  Way off the books of course but we know that doesn't concern the show writers 🙂  Suppose if they don't have further uses for Liandrin  ...

 

4 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

I have a theory that I don't think I've seen anywhere, regarding Tanchico and this season -

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I think Liandrin may get a bit of an Ingtar moment from the books. 

 

Nynaeve clearly has a "connection" to her, they have built the character up a lot and given her a bit of a tragic backstory. From the episode 6 teaser there is more backstory and Nynaeve says something along the lines of "this city is why she is with the Dark", something like that. 

 

Could we get a Nynaeve - Elayne - Moggy showdown and Liandrin saves them and sacrifices herself?

 

 

I wouldn't worry about that - Liandrin, like Alannah on the side of the light - has been introduced as the fleshed out representative of that class of character, and a BA rep is needed until the Tower cleansing. So unless they beef up a logical replacement (get it?), I think she'll be around. 

 

Given the way Hollywood thinks, she also needs to stick around until she pays off the relationship with Nynaeve, and that can't happen until they have a power duel, so it won't happen until after the block is removed.

 

I'm not saying that can't do the Ingtar thing with her - a much better outcome for her than in the books from her PoV - but it won't be this season. 

Being a book fan as they were being released, I can say that having a series being done, even if it won't be as cannon as I would like, is awesome.  My biggest complaint:  The audio books were done when Jordan was still alive... The pronunciations have been approved through Kate & Michael, stop butchering how things are said!  I did like hearing my first bloody ashes tho 🙂!  Every time I hear them mispronounce Tar Valon makes me cringe...

33 minutes ago, Tephulis said:

Being a book fan as they were being released, I can say that having a series being done, even if it won't be as cannon as I would like, is awesome.  My biggest complaint:  The audio books were done when Jordan was still alive... The pronunciations have been approved through Kate & Michael, stop butchering how things are said!  I did like hearing my first bloody ashes tho 🙂!  Every time I hear them mispronounce Tar Valon makes me cringe...

Ooof, same.  I know it’s all fantasy gobbledygook but we have decades of pronunciation to go on and some of the show pronunciations make my ears cry; Tar Valon is by far the worst offender.  Audiobooks aside, surely Jordan and Sanderson have said some of these names in the past.

Edited April 3Apr 3 by Mirefox

22 hours ago, Sabio said:

Best seasonso far but I have to say I'm worried about the final episode of the season.  IMO the worst episodes of season 1 and 2 were the last episodes.  I hope they don't get all crazy like they have in the past.

The first two books had problematic endings with stuff coming up from nowhere outside of the normal boundaries of the magic system.

Subsequent books have better endings. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt alcair dal, the two river battle and the showdown in tanchico

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

The first two books had problematic endings with stuff coming up from nowhere outside of the normal boundaries of the magic system.

Subsequent books have better endings. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt alcair dal, the two river battle and the showdown in tanchico

Except with only two episodes left adapting those three events is going to be awfully compressed even if we don't have any other "additions" taking up precious time. Hoping they don't make a mess of the finale but not betting my house on them nailing it.

25 minutes ago, Figs and Mice said:

Except with only two episodes left adapting those three events is going to be awfully compressed even if we don't have any other "additions" taking up precious time. Hoping they don't make a mess of the finale but not betting my house on them nailing it.

I hear a lot of theorizing about 

 

Spoiler

Moiraine dying at the end of this season.  If they make that happen, I feel like it is going to be violent, like in one of her visions.  The problem with the red door is that there has been no build up to it at all.  We saw something in the White tower briefly, but at this point it feels like an Easter egg more than anything.  
 

Would they remove her in the show?  I can see it, especially since so much of her continuing arc could be cut.  

 

1 hour ago, Figs and Mice said:

Except with only two episodes left

There are 3 episodes remaining, counting the one that drops today. 

55 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

The problem with the red door is that there has been no build up to it at all.

I don’t think this is a problem. So long as the fight is violent and appears to be fatal, the door can be set up

by Mat. 

14 hours ago, Mirefox said:

I hear a lot of theorizing about 

 

  Hide contents

Moiraine dying at the end of this season.  If they make that happen, I feel like it is going to be violent, like in one of her visions.  The problem with the red door is that there has been no build up to it at all.  We saw something in the White tower briefly, but at this point it feels like an Easter egg more than anything.  
 

Would they remove her in the show?  I can see it, especially since so much of her continuing arc could be cut.  

 

Will be interesting to see how she will die considering she has the most powerful object for a woman.  In theory she would be able to blast Lanfear without blinking an eye, which is why I'm curious what their plan for her is.

Edited April 4Apr 4 by Sabio

At this point, my expectation is we're getting Alcair Dal, the Battle of the Two Rivers, and the Palace duel in Tanchico over the next two episodes. Big, special effects budget eaters all of them. Alcair Dal is the cliffhanger for the season, unless it's Bayle getting pulled over by Egeanin and Suroth as a cold close.

 

While it's possible we see a Redstone doorway this season, I don't think anyone goes through it.

We'll see the white Tower plot advance, but not climax

 

Someone mentioned that the audience are going to disregard the outcome of one of those door scenes, but a certain character's reaction will go a long way to making think that the deaths are permanent

Spoiler

Lan's bond being snapped and passed

And I think the poke ball of glowing light goes with them when it happens, thereby moving the retrieval up from ToM timeline to pre-cleansing. Then it could be played as a surprise for the audience when Mat goes back in to retrieve the glowing poke ball from someone's cold dead hand.

 

Seems like next week is a going to be a heavy two rivers episode.  

17 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

There are 3 episodes remaining, counting the one that drops today. 

Time zones , eh ?  I had already watched ep 6 when I posted...

Anyway we will see over the next two weeks just what they can fit in to the time remaining.  I do expect the 2 Rivers battle to take up rather a lot of the running time so doing full justice to the Tanchico confrontation and the hugely important scenes at Alcair Dal feels to me in a bit of danger . Hopefully they can nail both ; but fitting anything else (like Red Door action) in strikes me as highly improbable. WAFO , eh  ?

I would like to resurrect a dead thread and this seems like a place to do it!

 

 

 

Perrin was wearing armor in the preview for next week's episode and I friggin' hated it!

 

Having read the above thread my rationale for an armorless Perrin is as follows:

 

He is big. He is fast. He is perceptive to a supernatural degree (thank you, wolves). He is smart (yes I know he continually says he is slow and methodical, but there is a reason he generally says this right before someone looks at him in horror and goes "how did you catch that?"). And he has a (not controlled) supernatural ability to pull the pattern of reality to help him or hinder others.

 

And in the TV show he absolutely DOES go into a berserker rage.

 

I assume he stole the armor from a whitecloak and they are going for a "becoming what you hate and fear" plotline, which makes sense for the character and was also sorta present in the books.

 

But I still hate Perrin in armor.