2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

If she wasn't riddled with arrows, the Whitecloaks' threat level would be diminished and they wouldn't be seen as credible or competent foes.

good point. it's not much about alanna getting healed, as much as showing that regular whitecloaks are a real threat to a channeler

2 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Alanna was made as hurt as she was precisely to raise the stakes, and to heighten the drama.

 

If she wasn't riddled with arrows, the Whitecloaks' threat level would be diminished and they wouldn't be seen as credible or competent foes.

 

At the same time, though, Alanna still has to be involved in the upcoming story... hence the utilization of Mat's sisters being able to Heal her 

 

It's not inconsistent writing or inconsistent depiction of the limitations of the magic; it's adapting the utilization of the magic to fit specific plot requirements.

 

I know we will just not agree on this and I don't know if I have the energy for an endless back and forth - but the show has removed any stakes so long as there are people around who can Heal. Now, the show has put forth the idea that you don't even need to be trained in channeling to be able to Heal, you just need to be able to channel and know how to embrace the Source. Don't worry if you're stabbed 100 times and a thousand arrows to every artery, it's ok, a child channeler is nearby!

 

The Whitecloaks threat has been extremely well established at this point, all the way back to their very first introduction we saw how dangerous they are to Aes Sedai, we did not need to see Alanna hit with a million arrows to re-emphasise that point.

 

Honestly, less is absolutely more in this case. 

2 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

good point. it's not much about alanna getting healed, as much as showing that regular whitecloaks are a real threat to a channeler

 

She was already being defeated by the Whitecloaks because Maksim wasn't there. You can show that without having her on death's door at the end of it. It's easy to show that they had the upper hand and if he doesn't arrive when he does, she absolutely would have died. But again, they went OTT.

Anyway, in spite of my clear annoyance at the Cauthons Healing, I enjoyed this episode 😅

 

First, Tanchico. Really great, I wasn't sure in certain scenes but I think Thom coming back sealed it for me, Elayne singing as well! I really wish though when things quietened a little bit that she whispered to Thom something like "Have we met before??" and then he joins in with the shouts for her to sing again to avoid the question or something. Just a little nod on top of what he had said about Morgase's court. 

 

Moggy is fantastic, I've felt she has not been used enough so far in terms of interacting with other characters, but this scene with Elayne and Nynaeve was really brilliant, the actress is so good. I kept waiting for Nynaeve to resist and it was great when it happened as well. I hope they let that breathe a little bit in terms of a rivalry. 

 

One thing that annoyed me with the Black sisters though - both Nyomi and Ispan said Forsaken rather than Chosen. I know that Darkfriends in the books would sometimes do this, as they maybe weren't "true believers". But for Moghedien especially not to react to "one of the Forsaken" is a small character beat I just feel wouldn't wash in reality. It could have even been something she said as she kills Ispan - "We are Chosen". It's small, but for me it would add to the show if they hit those small moments.

 

In the Two Rivers, I loved the Perrin and Faile scene and dialogue, but like others I wish the show held back on them kissing. I think a slow burn would have worked way better for those characters to be frank, especially considering Perrin was just talking about his wife. 

 

I am not so sure on the Wise Ones and training Egwene at the moment. We just have a lot of the Wise Ones telling Egwene what to do. To me, they should be showing her. Why haven't we seen a cocky Egwene being slapped down a peg or two by the Wise Ones in the Dream? Just one scene like that would show how she has to grow, and show the Wise Ones power. For me, they started out strong as characters but the past two episodes feel quite sidelined and lacking agency. I understand too that they don't have much time, but I would like a scene with Rand and Rhuarc and the Wise Ones since Rhuidean. 

 

Regardless, no matter how I feel generally about the love triangle and Egwene - Rand - Lanfear, the break-up scene was excellently done. I was also thinking while watching the scene that for what is to come (hopefully), this sort of personal break between them, and Egwene's "Don't lie to me Rand", as if she didn't fully believe he didn't know, it gives that extra personal dimension to them being at loggerheads further down the line and whether Egwene can really trust Rand, never mind the Dragon Reborn. So I thought it was really good - I just hated Sammael's entrance haha, it was so hokey! But, again, Aviendha channeling: good. Rand's show of Power - great! And that scene from the books was done as well as I thought they could for the show - a beat-for-beat recreation of the book would be too far for me. I thought they hit the write note and got the seriousness of it across really well.

 

Like I briefly mentioned too, I really liked Alanna teaching the girls how to embrace the Source. I thought it contrasted really well with Rand's description from his POV. I also liked him saying that the Aes Sedai don't know everything - but I don't think he does either, so I wouldn't think the show is going down the route of "it's all the same Power", I wonder if they are more going for the idea that Rand will be tempted by the True Power (or at least, Lanfear will try). While I'm delighted to finally get a distinction between saidin and saidar, it feels so silly to me to this day that they didn't make this small distinction in S1, E8, when Moiraine and Rand are going to the Eye. One line all the way back then would have set it up more, but regardless, we have it now I suppose.

 

I am assuming Sammael is now going to be Rand's teacher. This makes me doubt whether Asmodean is actually in the show, and makes room again for Demandred... although the guitar-playing Forsaken figureine in S1 still makes me thinks surely it's Asmo!

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

demandred wanted to beat rand in a sword duel to prove himself best, because he was an egomaniac. that was boasting. for actually fighting, he was throwing around balefire.

ishamael wasn't trying to kill rand, but to turn him, which required breaking rand first.

Exactly, so you agree that the Foresaken could have reasons for not just blasting someone with the power.  Glad we agree?

16 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

Agree 100%. Deus ex machina is one of the laziest and most immature story devices and its overuse always lessens the stakes.  It doesn’t matter if the genre is fantasy, competent writers will look to minimize it.  It is especially obnoxious in film and television where there is often less exposition like you might get in a book to explain it.  But you’re spot on - the writers didn’t need to do it here, but they wrote themselves a problem they likely didn’t have an immediate solution for and waved their magic little writers’ wands and made some healers.  This show is lousy with example after example of this and even uses it in lieu of actual character growth.

 

On top op this, how was Eggy’s first lesson with Moiraine in this show?  Based on what we’ve been show, the Cauthon girls are vastly more powerful than Egwene if this show wants any internal consistency.

 

Honestly, I was expecting Verin to show up as a Deus ex machina moment to Heal Alanna, because I knew she had to be Healed. But this was much more annoying. 

7 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Alanna was made as hurt as she was precisely to raise the stakes, and to heighten the drama.

 

If she wasn't riddled with arrows, the Whitecloaks' threat level would be diminished and they wouldn't be seen as credible or competent foes.

 

At the same time, though, Alanna still has to be involved in the upcoming story... hence the utilization of Mat's sisters being able to Heal her 

 

It's not inconsistent writing or inconsistent depiction of the limitations of the magic; it's adapting the utilization of the magic to fit specific plot requirements.

“adapting the utilization of the magic to fit specific plot requirements” is the same as saying “changing the lore and creating inconsistencies to write the story the way we want to.”   Hence the amateur garbage they keep delivering.

Really enjoyed this episode - especially the Tanchico bits.

 

Favourite part:

Elayne requesting for Hills of tanchico. Thom asking "are you sure?"

 

As the lyrics went on something like "one is not enough but three is too many" and Elayne caught sight of a lady moving her hands down her bosom, Elayne's Pikachu face realising what the song is about 

7 minutes ago, Yamezt said:

Really enjoyed this episode - especially the Tanchico bits.

 

Favourite part:

Elayne requesting for Hills of tanchico. Thom asking "are you sure?"

 

As the lyrics went on something like "one is not enough but three is too many" and Elayne caught sight of a lady moving her hands down her bosom, Elayne's Pikachu face realising what the song is about 

That got a little weird.  I get that it is a bawdy song and I agree that it was great the way Elayne didn't realize what she was getting in to, but once the song started, the women all began rubbing themselves in such a weird way.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Yamezt said:

As the lyrics went on something like "one is not enough but three is too many" and Elayne caught sight of a lady moving her hands down her bosom, Elayne's Pikachu face realising what the song is about 

i missed the detail, thanks for pointing it out

30 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

but once the song started, the women all began rubbing themselves in such a weird way.

😅

 

I can't say it really bothered me.

 

In hindsight, maybe a missed opportunity to try choreograph something bawdy with the women folding their arms under their bosoms for a song about bosoms as a nod and wink to those who know. Whether that would be successful is another thing of course.

Discovered another cool bit about the hills of Tanchio while searching for the lyrics (and pointed out by someone on a youtube comment). It has a line from TSR 54 which I have underlined (below quote copied from https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_songs#cite_note-4-54-13)

 

I Have Loved a Thousand Sailor Men: A song taught by Temaile to Amathera.

My breasts are round, and my hips are too
I can flatten a whole ship's crew.
My thighs are strong are strong as anchor chain.
My kiss can burst

 

Tales of Tanchico City (nicked off a youtube comment)

I'll tell you a tale of a lad of twenty
A Tarabon boy with coin aplenty

Went looking for love and more's the pity
Now he's lost in the hills of Tanchico city

Where one's not enough and three's too many
And two bring a man to his knees
Hey!

The hills of Tanchico
The hills of Tanchico
Hey!

These hills will flatten a whole ship's crew
These hills will make a man out of you

The hills of Tanchico
The hills of Tanchico
Hey!

These hills will flatten a whole ship's crew
These hills will flatten a whole ship's crew
These hills will make a man out of you
These hills will make a man out of you
The hills of Tanchico
The hills of Tanchico
Hey!

The hills of Tanchico
The hills of Tanchico
Hey!

 

More songs pls

Edited April 3Apr 3 by Yamezt

I’m probably going to have to rewatch and think about it before I have much of an opinion on this episode. 
 

My initial reaction was … an 6 out of 10 rating. And my initial thoughts are: 
 

I totally disagree with @Mirefox about TvThom. I like the shows version of Thom a whole lot better. It never made sense to me that a Gleeman was a BA warrior in the books. This Thom is darker, weathered, has great lines & makes Gleeman a lot cooler (IMO). So I loved seeing him back … I just wish we got as much of TvThom as we do TvLiandrin (but yes, I do agree with you @Mirefox that neither of them are very much like their book counterparts at all - but I think both are improvements!) 
 

This Moggy is sooo creepy …and kind of gross. I like it. I liked the “interview with a Spider” scene a lot. Felt like the book scenes in that regard. 
 

I liked all of the Tanicho stuff. Especially Elayne singing. 

I liked most of the Cold Rocks hold stuff. 
When Sammael showed up as Lanfear’s “surprise” and Rand seemingly killed him? I went “whaaaaat?” And then I went, “hmmm… well, I’m ok with it as long as Sammael isn’t really dead or if he “comes back”! Sooo we’ll see… I’m either ok with it or really hate it. If you have a Forsaken who is trying to fight who is that easily killed and incompetent then I hate it. So we’ll see I guess…
But I also had this thought: 

Spoiler

maybe Sammael is replacing Asmo here? Then I actually really liked it … Sammael is not dead and has to teach Rand to channel? 

 

I disliked all of the Two Rivers stuff.

Very CW level writing - like watching Arrow.
 

Didn’t like any of the Perrin/Faile lines or how that is happening - fridges his wife and is now making out with someone he just met because (honor the dead by making out with the living?) Faile’s mother a darkfriend - bleh. 

I do like the theory that Faile is a vampire though!🧛 Vampire/Werewolf vibes for sure. 
 

I agree with what the majority of people have said. It’s lazy and poor writing to stick Alanna full of arrows and then have teen girls heal her because you need her healed. Totally disagree with @DigificWriter there. They’ve ruined any “stakes” because they average a “fake-out death” per episode (see above thoughts on Sammael!) I’ve contended for awhile now that GoT was widely popular as books & Tv because the stakes were real.

 

I remember reading the first book and when 

Spoiler

Ned Stark died 

I thought … I don’t think I’ve ever read a book where the only character in it that I actually liked … actually died at the end.GoT had real stakes.

 

And most shows and writers don’t really kill main characters because of … contracts with actors and because they get attached to their characters. 
But it’s actually more believable because in real history and life - people, good guys, heroes - die. 
 

WoTTv has no real stakes. Neither did the books though. Unless you’re a side character that they introduce for the very purpose of killing. And even then they might bring you back (I’m looking at you - Uno!) 

So if your season finale is 

Spoiler

Moiraine and Lanfear through the Red Stone Doorframe

Now you’ve lost all that punch… nobody believes that they won’t just “be back” … somehow … soon. 

Edited April 3Apr 3 by DreadLord31

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

Alanna was made as hurt as she was precisely to raise the stakes, and to heighten the drama.

 

If she wasn't riddled with arrows, the Whitecloaks' threat level would be diminished and they wouldn't be seen as credible or competent foes.

 

At the same time, though, Alanna still has to be involved in the upcoming story... hence the utilization of Mat's sisters being able to Heal her 

 

It's not inconsistent writing or inconsistent depiction of the limitations of the magic; it's adapting the utilization of the magic to fit specific plot requirements.

You have to be joking raising the stakes in a show that has mortally wounded it's main characters in every episode this season. What stakes.

 

Bastardizing the magic system to resolve story elements you have forced on the characters is terrible writing. Good writing means that the plot must bend the knee to your world building or it is objectively bad writing.

 

Honestly at this point considering your name on this site I am not sure that you are not trolling. You seriously think that breaking the rules of your magic system to service a plot issue is not bad writing?

7 hours ago, Mirefox said:

I just watched it frame by frame.  When she first manifests them, the one in her right hand might be a spear as there might be a visible spear shaft behind her hand.  She then proceeds to downward slash everything in sight, twirl it over her head, do some sort of downward block (with clearly no spear shaft visible).  

 

If I were to concede that they were spears so as not to destroy the lore, then the other option is pure dog crap fight choreography that’s intended to look cool but makes no sense.

I thought the same thing initially.

 

The weapon that pierces Sammael was definitely a spear point. I think the issue is she is using spears but the actual movements she uses look more like sword ones, lots of flowing slices rather than stabs. Not good but not as bad as her using a sword.

Edited April 4Apr 4 by Mailman

Worse than last week's episode.

 

So some random dude in a bar happened to have access to the 2nd bracelet, oh FFS.

 

Healing, healing, healing ,healing. Utter rot and a rod that the show is now incapable of escaping.

 

Taylor Napier cannot act.

 

Min gets a vision on a random dude that will be killed by the BA but does not see any visions on one of the actual BA?

 

Moggy spitting in the food just so childish.

 

People remember Liandrin 95 years later and know what she looks like despite looking vastly different to when she left?

 

Guess the murder house really was stupid as it led to them being found. Again a rando happens to overhear a conversation and provide the information.

 

Sammael a couple of options 

1 He is taking Asmo's place, if so his capture is pathetic.

2 It is not really Sammael but a fake armed with a ter'angreal weapon or the channeling being faked by someone close.

3 He is dead, but how? Why is no one even checking on him we know that the Forsaken can regenerate.

 

Where were all the Aiel? Except for Avi not one Aiel responded to the amazing noise and lightning display that occurred, Moiraine and Lan appeared to just walk over. Hardly the ever-ready super alert fighting force.

 

Elaynes singing was quite good, did sound a bit like auto tune though.

 

Egwene's acting remains a clear stand out from the rest of the cast.

 

Moggys interrogation scene was pretty good I don't think we needed all the giggling and the choice to cut Nyn seemed needlessly risky and stupid.

 

I'm not sure why Fain needs the whitecloaks help? Is he separate from the trollocs if so then how did he kill all the whitecloaks reinforcements?

 

Liandrins first use of the power being so super precise and the fact that she was then able to instantly reproduce it. Why not have her simply knock them out back or kill them both with a blast of the power giving her the precision and control to replicate the same narrow focussed ability twice with such control is not good

 

There are things I am missing but this was just terrible.

 

 

Edited April 4Apr 4 by Mailman

• I love, love , love, love Moghedian!
   
• The compulsion scene was brilliant, Zoe and Ceara played it so well. It felt more like the book than any other screen in the show so far. 

29 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Worse than last week's episode.

 

So some random dude in a bar happened to have access to the 2nd bracelet, oh FFS.

 

Healing, healing, healing ,healing. Utter rot and a rod that the show is now incapable of escaping.

 

Taylor Napier cannot act.

 

Min gets a vision on a random dude that will be killed by the BA but does not see any visions on one of the actual BA?

 

Moggy spitting in the food just so childish.

 

People remember Liandrin 95 years later and know what she looks like despite looking vastly different to when she left?

 

Guess the murder house really was stupid as it led to them being found. Again a rando happens to overhear a conversation and provide the information.

 

Sammael a couple of options 

1 He is taking Asmo's place, if so his capture is pathetic.

2 It is not really Sammael but a fake armed with a ter'angreal weapon or the channeling being faked by someone close.

3 He is dead, but how? Why is no one even checking on him we know that the Forsaken can regenerate.

 

Where were all the Aiel? Except for Avi not one Aiel responded to the amazing noise and lightning display that occurred, Moiraine and Lan appeared to just walk over. Hardly the ever-ready super alert fighting force.

 

Elaynes singing was quite good, did sound a bit like auto tune though.

 

Egwene's acting remains a clear stand out from the rest of the cast.

 

Moggys interrogation scene was pretty good I don't think we needed all the giggling and the choice to cut Nyn seemed needlessly risky and stupid.

 

I'm not sure why Fain needs the whitecloaks help? Is he separate from the trollocs if so then how did he kill all the whitecloaks reinforcements?

 

There are things I am missing but this was just terrible.

 

 

Why is it that this show feels like a rough draft. It really seems like it has potential but that it should have gone through a few more revisions before being released. It also seems like Rafe is beginning to regret some of the departures he made from the book in season one. Natti suddenly cares about the girls, Mat is acting more like his book self, they mention that Tam and Able are in hiding for defying the White Cloaks just like in the book, really doesn’t sound like the Able we met in season 1. We have Saidar and Saidin mentioned for the first time, a division that was greatly downplayed in the previous two seasons. Did Rafe actually realize that so much of the story just won’t work without this division. All in all we’ve gotten a decent show that could have been great. 

17 minutes ago, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Why is it that this show feels like a rough draft. It really seems like it has potential but that it should have gone through a few more revisions before being released. It also seems like Rafe is beginning to regret some of the departures he made from the book in season one. Natti suddenly cares about the girls, Mat is acting more like his book self, they mention that Tam and Able are in hiding for defying the White Cloaks just like in the book, really doesn’t sound like the Able we met in season 1. We have Saidar and Saidin mentioned for the first time, a division that was greatly downplayed in the previous two seasons. Did Rafe actually realize that so much of the story just won’t work without this division. All in all we’ve gotten a decent show that could have been great. 

I think that is the core problem of the show.

First, the first season was very very bad. rafe tried to fundamentaly change the story and focused too much on nyn and eg to the point that rand became a side character whose only characteristic was dating eg.

However, things improved a lot on the second season. I thought I would drop this show somewhere during that season but I think the only really big flaw I remember now is that rand should have done something eye catching when he killed villain at the end of the season and not just stad him.

Then this season is by far the more grounded one that has really focused on rand as the main character. And we can see in the break up scene of this ep how much the show has improved. 

 

It really feels like the writers didn't have the experience or knowledge needed in the first season. if that season had the same quality as the third season has had so far I think this would be a much more popular show

2 minutes ago, divica said:

I think that is the core problem of the show.

First, the first season was very very bad. rafe tried to fundamentaly change the story and focused too much on nyn and eg to the point that rand became a side character whose only characteristic was dating eg.

However, things improved a lot on the second season. I thought I would drop this show somewhere during that season but I think the only really big flaw I remember now is that rand should have done something eye catching when he killed villain at the end of the season and not just stad him.

Then this season is by far the more grounded one that has really focused on rand as the main character. And we can see in the break up scene of this ep how much the show has improved. 

 

It really feels like the writers didn't have the experience or knowledge needed in the first season. if that season had the same quality as the third season has had so far I think this would be a much more popular show

I think the reason Rand was so downplayed in season 1 was because they wanted to make it more of a mystery as to which of the of the Two Rivers five was The Dragon Reborn. That was the one thing about season one I really liked, I always thought that the book made it way too obvious. But overall I agree that season one was just bad. 

36 minutes ago, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Did Rafe actually realize that so much of the story just won’t work without this division. All in all we’ve gotten a decent show that could have been great.

I’m not a Rafe defender (I’ve criticized the show and writing plenty) but I think many of the terrible changes were pushed, not by Rafe, but by Amazon people & writers who (honestly I don’t think have read the books) who want to appeal to the wider non-reader audience. I think this season Rafe has had more free rein & it is better. 
Even the people on here who don’t like it. You have to admit, this season is better! 

Upon a rewatch … I’ll bump this episode up actually to 7 out of 10. 

Dialogue between Rand & Moiraine was good. 
Still love the Tanchico stuff. 
Thom is my fav protagonist and all the antongists are all better in this turning of the wheel. 
I’ve softened on my Perrin/Faile thoughts - why drag it out - let’s all just forget about Laila and move on. 
Still think the amount of time spent on the Alanna stuff and the healing is poor… 
 

 

Is this Juilin? I mean it’s a dark skinned man in a conical hat🤷

6 minutes ago, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

I think the reason Rand was so downplayed in season 1 was because they wanted to make it more of a mystery as to which of the of the Two Rivers five was The Dragon Reborn. That was the one thing about season one I really liked, I always thought that the book made it way too obvious. But overall I agree that season one was just bad. 

I get what you are saying and on tv the mystery about who is the dragon could have worked. but the execution was very poor. I don't even really want to waste time talking about it lol.

 

6 minutes ago, DreadLord31 said:

I’m not a Rafe defender (I’ve criticized the show and writing plenty) but I think many of the terrible changes were pushed, not by Rafe, but by Amazon people & writers who (honestly I don’t think have read the books) who want to appeal to the wider non-reader audience. I think this season Rafe has had more free rein & it is better. 
Even the people on here who don’t like it. You have to admit, this season is better! 

Upon a rewatch … I’ll bump this episode up actually to 7 out of 10. 

Dialogue between Rand & Moiraine was good. 
Still love the Tanchico stuff. 
Thom is my fav protagonist and all the antongists are all better in this turning of the wheel. 
I’ve softened on my Perrin/Faile thoughts - why drag it out - let’s all just forget about Laila and move on. 
Still think the amount of time spent on the Alanna stuff and the healing is poor… 
 

 

I completly agree that this season (even the second) were much better than the first. I just can't say if it is because of rafe or despite him lol. I think even ignoring the woke agenda and the awfull finale of the first season, the writers just didn't understand the story. wot is a universe filled with strong and powerfull women. it needs some strong male proganists to balance all that female power. however they went out of their way to make things as unbalanced as possible.

I'd probably go 6.5 out of 10.  Random thoughts:

- minus 2 points for the healing by the Cauthons. Just...so...stupid. Making it look like healing is this easy is going to wreck 2 really impactful battle scenes later on; and it could have been an easy fix by having Alannah link with them, and then guide their weaves using their power. But nope; Wonder Twins power activate...

- minus 1 point for the blatant telegraphing of the dead aiel child. While I know everyone is born to die, it was just obvious; it's Hollywood melodrama / plotting 101. It's obvious to me Rafe's writing room are full of professional writers; that's not a compliment

- minus .5 for Sammael's involvement in the raid. I guess it's a way around the draghkar, but the scene makes little sense from his POV, unless Lanfear spun the Mirror of Mists as a means of letting Rand know Sammael is loose.

- minus 0 points for the random guy finding a thousand year old artifact in less than a day in some random junk shop for Mat. Hard to believe, but so was Bayle Domon having 2 of the seals in the books; Ta'veren gonna Ta'veren

 

Now, in general though, I liked the episode, and especially liked:

- Getting Thom back, and him revealing he knows Elayne right off; makes it more believable to attach him to the group quickly, and get that fixed. I'm kind of okay with Grimdark Thom instead of epic fantasy Thom.

- the relationship dynamics with the Tanchico crew; all very good.  Ceara has a better voice than I would have thought, but the actress doesn't match Elayne's attributes in other areas for that performance, the straw headed cow (Elayne, not Ceara).

- everything except the scratch in the Moggy interview scene. That tells the girls someone with a lot of control with compulsion was in the room, and likely took the bracer, not some random thief.  So they may not remember who specifically, but if Nyomi's comment re compulsion subtlety is known in the tower (did they see Adeleas?), then the know the thief is likely Forsaken.

- I already like Faile in the show a lot more than the books; not sure I like the DF story about her mom, but not sure I believe it, either

- Good to see Padan Fain back; need to see more wolf involvement with Perrin but almost everything else with him is at it should be, and we can close the book on the wife once and for all.

- I was quite happy that Rand got some back on Egwene during the breakup scene.  They didn't play the straight cad angle, which surprised the hell out of me. there is a real dig in the "I'm the DR, and still not enough for you". I'm just not sure the meta message was intended; would seem out of character for this writing room. Rand is almost exactly where he should be, plot and character wise.

 - Mat still has one major event to get back on track, but more on that in the season thread...

 

While I agree that Rafe and / or Amazon executives were pushing a progressive agenda,. I can also understand the rationale for increasing the emphasis on the girls earlier in the series. In the first few books, it very much is Rand and his Amazing Friends, and not the first among equals view that he himself espouses with the "still fights" speech in AMoL For a modern TV audience, I could even support the shift off the traditional hero's journey to one of dual his / her journeys

 

Unfortunately, these writers did not have the talent to pull this off except in the most tropey of Hollywood writing. The failure was not one of intent, but of execution.