has anyone also realised that Verin is not one of the Aes Sedai who Rand "holds in his hands"

 

when verin was compelling the captive sisters, there was a comment about the Black Ajah that made it sound she didnt really concider them a great threat

Thats because she had access to them and compeled them. Nothing to fear from someone you control.

there was a comment about the Black Ajah that made it sound she didnt really concider them a great threat

 

There are also a lot of theories going around that Verin has been hunting/studying the Black for an age. She might have grown complacent, unlikely, or simply not be all that frightened of them.

Do you think the Shadow suspects her? I mean I can agree it seems like shes on an inclusive quest to purge Randland of the BA, but surely Masema would take care of her right? Granted she isnt in the tower but I imagine Mas has many BA at her disposal so she can kill her.

Do you think the Shadow suspects her? I mean I can agree it seems like shes on an inclusive quest to purge Randland of the BA, but surely Masema would take care of her right? Granted she isnt in the tower but I imagine Mas has many BA at her disposal so she can kill her.

 

No I do not think that Messana or any other person of the Shadow is particularly "on" to Verin.

 

Remember we see MUCH more than the people that she deals with.  Much of the time she acts like the Doddering old "Brown" and not some super sceamer.  We have her POVs and others POVs near her so we know more of her than anyone especially anyone of the Shadow.    The only Black Adja that we know of that has been near her for any length of time is Elsa (sp).    And from what we have seen of her POVs - she does not think anything special about Verin being any particulat threat to the BA.

I dunno, her recent connections to the Dragon Reborn have to have been noticed. Everyone in Rands party has suspisions of her. I think that someone major in his circle is a df so thats why I believe she may have a very important role in the final book.

I dunno, her recent connections to the Dragon Reborn have to have been noticed. Everyone in Rands party has suspisions of her. I think that someone major in his circle is a df so thats why I believe she may have a very important role in the final book.

 

Well, I agree that she will play a big part in the last book but as far as being on a special Shadow "Hit List" I don't think that she is any higher than his other AS "Recruits".    Surely much less than Nyevene and Caddy.

 

PS.

 

Now if the Shadow knew her like WE DO - yes she would be right up there at the top with the others I mentioned.

The way I will explain it is this. She is a shadowy lady. She keeps what she knows and what she is doing to herself mostly. I think any df would see someone shifty like that like a threat. If your not on our side your against us. She rouses everyones suspicions and I think she is on a list of some sort, not like a top ten or anything but if they get a chance they will put her to the question. I just think sees on a list of suspects, for the light and dark both. A lot of people proly want inside her head.

i dont think verin is like some aes sedai batwomen out to get all black ajah, shes a very strong, very observant woman, who doesnt care about the rules and laws when it stops her from getting done what needs doing.

I think her target is the Aes Sedai in general, not merely the Blacks. And by that I don't mean that she plans to destroy them, i mean she is attempting to stop them from destroying everything. I believe that Corianin's Nedeal's notes contained comments analysing the various shortcomings of the Aes Sedai--or perhaps dreams reguarding how those shortcomings could hurt the future if the Aes Sedai were too easily able to get their own way.

 

Concider the things she does and the effect that they have.

 

1. The Lie. Verin had no need to say it whatsoever--the Shienar practically worship Aes Sedai, she could have told them the a pink bunny rabit named Lulu had sent her and they would have bowed and whispered honours to the Sister. About the only thing it directly achieves is that it disrupts everything Moiraine was trying to achieve by letting Rand go off 'by himself', and thus drives a wedge between Rand and the one Aes Sedai he might be willing to obey.

 

And she does the opposite to. Pretty much every second word out of her mouth to Moiraine and Siuan seem to play on the prejudices and fears Aes Sedai have about men who can channel. Seriously, go re-read the chapters in tGH and late tDR--i never realised how much before because those comments come out of pretty much every Aes Sedai's mouth at some stage in the series, but we know Verin doesn't think those things, which makes those comments calculated--and calculated at keeping Moiraine and Siuan wary of Rand.

 

2. Corianin's Notes. You all know what i think they contain. Verin conciders destroying them, and then she conciders giving them to Egwene. The reason she conciders destroying them is obvious. Questioning the Tower, directly acting against its best interest and in the interest of a man who can channel is against both Law and custom, it would see her stilled. But why does she concider giving them to Egwene?

 

I suspect that like Moiraine, Verin realises Egwene will become a driving force in the Tower--and that given Egwene's connections with Rand, she would have strong reason to redirect the Tower toward a more successful, less disaterous interaction.

 

3. Warning Perrin. This may or may not be a Verrinism, but Verin warns Perrin about Alanna--likely because she knew the woman was concidering bonding him. It could just be an act of decency, but it does continue with the same segragation of herself from Tower loyalties.

 

4. She incites the Salidar Embassy into that disasterous confrontation with Rand--Merana herself notes it. This seems strange--she knew it would drive them apart, yet later she compels Aes Sedai to help him. This was the incident that led me to this thought. She is acting to bring the Aes Sedai into helping Rand, but she is also acting to keep them from gaining control of Rand.

 

5. She compels the Aes Sedai into aiding him. Self evident what that means.

 

6. She conciders killing Cadsuane but stops specifically when Cadsuane reveals that she intends to act in his best interest, and that her actions and her bullying had nothing to do with getting control of him. Again, acting to stop Aes Sedai hubris and willfullness from taking over.

 

7. She herself warns him in her letter to beware all Sisters.

 

Ultimately every one of her peculiar actions lend themself to one thing--Verin acting to keep Aes Sedai from taking over, and yet still stay involved in the fight against the Shadow.

Well Luckers, couldnt you say that doing all of these things she seems to be countering the Tower in many ways, using the stereotypes to play to Rands need for straight forward allies. Now my thing is, wouldnt this be a red flag to any BA? I mean she clearly has helped Rand in many open ways, so wouldnt that mean that people want to know what she knows and intends? She is no longer with Rand and that makes this a suseptable time for her. Surely the Chosen have implimented either themselves or their proxies into his camp and know of Verins role.

But she hasn't really acted in any overt ways--indeed, all of her moves are so subtle that WE with insider knowledge barely percieve them. I see nothing in her actions that would have raised flags for the Black Ajah, much less anything to make her a target for the Forsaken. I mean, even the few that realise she has a different agenda are confused as to how dangerous she is. Cadsuane has come the closest to actual suspicion with the lazy comment 'a woman of many masks'.

Well I would say she is known to be a part of Rands group. I find it hard to believe that an Aes Sedai, with ties to the Dragon Reborn, would not be sought out by the BA. I mean they can convulse the crap outta her. Think of the things they would uncover. Wouldnt her leaving make her open to such an attack? The rest of Rands click stays with him 90% of the time. The Dark could have much to gain from her I think. Well that is unless all the Forsaken are too dumb to have Rands movements tracked(thats as best as possible)

I'm sorry but even if anyone thought to pay Verin mind they would conclude she is little more than an unwilling flunkey. And i find it very unlikely that they would concider her--she, like the 29 other Sisters serving Rand were bound to do so in circumstances clearly not of their making, and since then he has shown no overt interest in her--indeed, Merana, Kiruna and Rafela are the only ones with direct interactions with him from that lot.

 

Frankly, no, i dont see the Shadow percieving any importance about her, or thinking they could learn anything from her. Indeed, if they wanted to use that approach, they'd go through Elza.

YYYAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

 

*sobs*

 

*Walks into the shadow*

 

*Throws rocks at Luckers*

 

Why cant I be right for once Luckers! *Sobs* Well can you at least agree her part in AMOL will be pretty large? I think she may be a VERY important piece in the final book.

Totally! I think she's about the most dangerous character about--and certainly the most interesting.

 

Amd the reason you can't be right is becuase your too pretty. You can't be pretty and right--its mean to the rest of us. :)

Such charm! Well unfortunately your wrong but I thank ye for sparing my feelings. lol So let me see if I am up to proper speed, didnt Verin leave the Rand camp to retrieve the Horn? If so how in the Creators name is she gonna get it from Elaida. She knows how to travel and so she knows the amount of power it uses, so I think thats out. Any thoughts?

*Glowers At Luckers*

 

 

And what about all of us girls here? Were right alot and were pretty, Some of us are even Hott!! *stamps foot* We Are Right and your silly!!

 

 

 

[glow=red,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]            

Mmmm. Hot angry women.

 

Wait... that doesn't work for me. Damn.

 

:D

 

I don't know. It may be that she will take it during the chaos of the Seanchan invasion... on the other hand, people do tend to dismiss Verin. She might play with that. However she does it will be interesting because ultimately she is one of the most capable women in the books, no matter what situation she finds herself in.

Luckers if you were in Randland you would be Aes Sedai. Not that your a woman of course, but Ash'aman dont seem to have that Aes Sedai diversion about them yet. That answer said absolutely nada to me! I want details man! *Prods the brain of Luckers* On and Andrea, feel free to help me out here! lol

Don't poke my brains... thats mean, and it makes me feeling bursting out in song--Barry Manilow--and no one wants to see that.

 

Well about the Seanchan, pretty much Verin left Rand around the same time the invasion of the Tower was being launched--and Verin, wearing an inverted cloak of invisibility and with her ability hidden could very easily use the confusion to take the Horn.

 

As for the other option--Verin is very talented in convincing people that she's not all there. I have no doubt that she could wander into Elaida's study unanounced and somehow have everyone in it thinking her a complete innocent. So basically she gains the trust--or rather dismissal--of Elaida's sisters, then she simply goes and grabs the Horn.

 

A third option exists. Less than two hundred sisters remain in a Tower capable of containing nearly ten thousand souls. The Horn is secured in a secret out of the way area. She could literally travel in and sneak from there with no real issue.

*nods* Quite suitable indeed Luckers! I just had no clue, with that fodder now I can think about possibilities. Just needed the nudge. I will be back, proly tomorrow on this subject.

There was a small note that Verin made when she was pondering that there might still be a warrant out for Verin Mathwin's arrest.  She took note of a young man walking by, something about him being just in his middling years, and then basically shakes herself by reminding herself that she has an outstanding warrant out.

 

I wondered if Verin was involved in some illicit activity concerning a man, or perhaps dealing with a man in a position that he was not allowed to be in since Far Madding is a patriarchal society.  I was just curious.  Perhaps she likes "young" guys.

Oh great....now accusing her of being a pedophile....what next a teenage mutant chop suey flinging vegitarian from the outer moons of beta 9? (Man I watched those late night Elvira hosted B and C horror movies to much)

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]       

 

 

 

Oh great....now accusing her of being a pedophile....what next a teenage mutant chop suey flinging vegitarian from the outer moons of beta 9? (Man I watched those late night Elvira hosted B and C horror movies to much)

 

Well ... I mean, surely it's all relative. If Verin is as old as has been bandied around here, her boy toy could be around 100 and she'd still consider him to be a fresh bit of meat...  :-*

 

Yes, that was all tongue in cheek. Though I do kinda like the idea of an Aes Sedai getting run out of town for trying to pick up young impressionable men. ::)