The only problem with that is that I don't see why Rand's channeling would affect the appearance of the Eye. It's more of a leap of faith to suggest something like the fact that the Eye is pure saidin would allow his channeling to attract it, or something other than the given explanation. There's no reason to believe that Rand channeling would be different from Moiraine channeling or any other traveler who has reached the Eye's channeling other than the fact that he channels the male half of the Source and that's what the Eye is made of. Which is where the leap of faith comes in.

 

I agree with you that there is no reason for us to think that Rand channeling should be able to do something Moiraine's or any other channeler could do--as such, i suggest that Moiraine or any other channeler would have been able to do the same thing Rand did--provided they knew how, which Moiraine quite clearly didn't.

 

Trained channelers have obvious benefits over untrained channelers--but untrained channelers do have one adventage--spontaneous weaving. Rand does this a hundred times--he discovers balefire when fighting those Darkhounds in tDR, he creates a shadowspawn seeking electrical storm in tSR. Others do it too--Nynaeve discovers a new method of healing and balefire. Egwene discovers tying off weaves and setting them. Not to mention the obvious--creating ter'angreal, travelling, cuendillar.

 

I'm willing to go with the intense need drew the Eye to them. Moiraine romanticized it a bit saying that it was the need of the world, but I think being chased by Worms and Rand being the Dragon Reborn is enough to draw the Eye to them.

 

Where as i think that RJ has backed pretty much everything he does with logic--and logic specifically intended to avoid the dues ex machina scenario prescribed.

 

Interesting quote, Luckers.  The Eye must have had something to do with TAR due to its nature: need being the key to finding it and its ability to exist in different places depending on where the seeker was.  Rand may have unconsciously done some sort of channeling that drew the Eye to their position since Moiraine (and probably Lan) had already been there.  After all, he was in mortal danger at the time, which is the condition necessary for unconscious channeling.  Why not Moiraine?  Well, for starters, she's not one of the characters known for making revolutionary discoveries of lost Talents.  In addition, she's nowhere near as powerful as Rand.

 

That is my thought. And I'd point out that we already know that the Blight is not entirely real to begin with--It has no reflection in TAR because it is a different sort of reality--the closer you get to Shayol Goul, the fuzzier it gets. As such it stricts me as very possible for Rand to have manipulated it.

 

That being said, at the time Moiraine was almost certainly stronger than Rand.

I think I'm going to stick with Occam's razor on this one. I just can't bring myself to believe the more complicated possibility in this case.

 

It's possible he took on the source.

It's less possible he wove something spontaneous.

It's even less possible that something spontaneous drew the Eye.

 

As opposed to:

 

The need the group expressed outweighed the conditions pre-existing (Moiraine having already been to the Eye).

 

One is supposition supported by one simple line. The other is supported by a character in the book.

 

I'm not denying that he might have channeled in that case. It certainly is an interesting way to describe Rand's attempts at assuming the Void. Out of the ordinary, indeed.

 

In this case, there is just no way we'll ever know. There is very limited evidence in both cases. And we don't have anyone we can ask. *sigh*

I've no problem with you taking that position, but your comments about the possibility of Rand's actions are completely unsupported. You have no basis for suggesting its less possible for Rand to have woven something spontaneously--in fact, your flat out wrong there. Rand has no knowledge of his ability to channel, thus everything woven is done so spontaneously. Thus it is that that is the only possibility, and cannot be 'less possible'.

 

Furthermore, you have no basis for stating him drawing the eye is in some way 'even less possible'. You have no basis for the statistical probabilities of him being able to do that, no evidence even on how difficult such a thing would be--assuming it would even be difficult at all.

 

Finally... occam's razor states that the simplest explanation is often the correct one--the 'need' explanation is not the simplest since is directly defies too major precepts of the reality of the Eye, that Moiraine shouldn't have been able to return, and that no one should have been able to find the Eye before the Mountains of Dhoom.

 

Thus, with those logical anomalies the simplest explanation is that someone acted to countermand the rules that control the eye--given the description of Rand's mindset, that seems highly sustainable.

 

Don't get me wrong, i definately see the 'need' option as highly viable--i even thought it was the case myself till Robert pointed this idea out to me--but to suggest it is the most likely seems... well, presumptuos.

I have to agree that it wasnt need or anything corny like Rand simply being the Dragon Reborn that drew the Eye to him. Its been a while since I read EotW (im on TGH reread but I cant find my EotW, so I started on book 2) but it seems more believable to say that Rand was somehow aware of the Eye and drew from it in a more clumsy, not-sure-whats-going-on kind of way. Remember, he can feel Saidin but he knows nothing about it, and Saidin-whether in its true form or the Eye of the World-is not attracted to any man for any reason. He draws from it, or he doesnt. Not even Ta'veren would attract Saidin.

 

I seem to have a vague memory of Aginor being in control of the Eye and Rand wrestling it off him... Its been a while. I need to find my book 1.

 

What some people dont get about the series is that everything has an explanation. There are rules in place for absolutely everything, and those rules are never broken. We might have mistaken the boundaries, just like the characters have, but they are never broken. Rand is just a man who can channel. The fact that he is the Dragon Reborn doesnt mean he can do things others cant, or that things happen to/for him that cant happen for others. Its the Ta'veren and channeling that do that, not his title. Unlikely things happen for him sometimes, but never impossible things. My point is, Dragon Reborn is just a title. It scares people, yes, but at the end of the day it doesnt do anything by itself.

To me it really looks like some of RJ's rules on Randland were more or less established after book 1. We see a lot of unusual things occuring in Book 1, some of which remaind a mystery (and possibly could remain so).

 

 

hmm, maybe RJ should have made a sort of book, explaining everything, even the small things, and he could publish it after he published AMOL. Unfortunately, he passed away  :(

QUOTE

To me it really looks like some of RJ's rules on Randland were more or less established after book 1. We see a lot of unusual things occuring in Book 1, some of which remaind a mystery (and possibly could remain so).

UNQUOTE

 

I simply think the lack of detail on the incedents in book 1 is a deliberate move on RJs part. Rand didnt know what he was doing, it all seemed to happen on its own, and through that we were looking through his eyes, we only saw and understood what he saw and understood. Later in the series he becomes more accustomed to Travelling, skimming, destruction with the Power, etc. but in book 1 its all new to him, so even he doesnt know whats going on.

hmm, maybe RJ should have made a sort of book, explaining everything, even the small things, and he could publish it after he published AMOL. Unfortunately, he passed away  :(

 

There was intentions for Harriet to publish a book based on RJ's notes--similar to the Guide, but more detailed. Whether that is still the plan....

 

 

QUOTE

To me it really looks like some of RJ's rules on Randland were more or less established after book 1. We see a lot of unusual things occuring in Book 1, some of which remaind a mystery (and possibly could remain so).

UNQUOTE

 

I simply think the lack of detail on the incedents in book 1 is a deliberate move on RJs part. Rand didnt know what he was doing, it all seemed to happen on its own, and through that we were looking through his eyes, we only saw and understood what he saw and understood. Later in the series he becomes more accustomed to Travelling, skimming, destruction with the Power, etc. but in book 1 its all new to him, so even he doesnt know whats going on.

 

That's what I call good writing :)

 

So Harriet is the one who will presumably write theis Guide?

Harriet was to edit RJ's notes into an encyclopaedia. Whether she still intends to...

Indeed Cockta, it is very good writing. There are two things that make me want to rant and rave about Wheel of Time; the first is all the mysteries, alter egos, bad guys under our noses, and all the little clues. The second one, and this being the main thing for me, is RJs ability to step so far into his characters that you really do see just what that character sees. He does this to such a degree that you could still tell one Ta'verens PoV from another if no names were mentioned.

Yeah, I have tried copying RJ's writing when I had to write some story in school, but my text just can't compare to RJ's work. Now well, I am still young, haven't even finished high school, but I see it as a challenge.

 

I don't think I can ever write novels like RJ, but it feels more interesting when you try to write as good as you can, and then compare to a famous writer as RJ. You see what you have done wrong, or what you could improve on, and do it the next time.

Are you a member of the Illuminators Guild on here? Its for writers. I think its good you use RJ as the one to compare your stuff to because this series really is a work of art, not just for how much you become attached to the characters but more because of the hundreds of plot twists, mysteries and foreshadowing clues. I mean, in book one you get clues for several things that dont happen until books 7-10, and in book 2 theres just been a dream about something that happens in KoD. RJ was the master. If Iv learned one thing from this series though, its that when writing a story you really cant have the main good guy do everything by himself, you have to share out the thunder. It fills out your characters.

 

Anyway, back to Rand channeling, I noticed something in TGH a few days ago, when Rand, Hurin, Ingtar and the rest are chasing Fain for the Horn, they get to a village and inside one of the houses Rand has some strange visions and such. Im sure you remember the incedent.

 

The point is, between these visions Rand found himself paralysed, and so he panicked and reached for the "queasy light" which we now know is Saidin. Then he felt as if he was tearing through something, he desccribes it as if hes cutting through "moonbeams made of stone" and "cobwebs made of steel." Any ideas what that was? I doubt Fain had a Darkfriend who could channel with him, and I didnt think channelers were aware of anything else like that other than the Power itself

Dunno man, maybe something RJ never explained, or maybe he will explain in AMoL!!! He does these kinds of things :)

I thought it was Lanfear at first because of the moonbeams and cobwebs part, but she was only following him to try to lure him to her side.  That trap, I think, was meant to kill.  I also remember reading that RJ confirmed in an interview that it was Fain, but I can't find the source. How Fain could do this I have no idea.  One of the reasons I'm not fond of Fain: his character's too unexplained.

I orginally thought it was Lanfear too, but then considering it was about what happened when Fain's trollocs came to town I decided it was probably something he did.

 

Didn't Moghedien do something similar in the dream world?  Don't remember who it was against but think it had to do with an image of the Two Rivers.

Yes, she tried to trap Nynaeve in a dream of the Two Rivers.  Now that would be interesting, if Fain's powers had something to do with TAR.

Tht would make Fain Overpowered, and then Brandon would have to nerf him, lol  :D

RJ confirmed that the visions of the family dying over and over were indeed Fain's doing. He described it as Fain experimenting with his newly discovered powers.

Does anybody think that Fain will bite the dust, and how he will do so?

He will bite the dust and he dies cutting himself while using his dagger to shave.

Lol, but in one of the books Fain takes the dagger and cuts himslef just for fun. I don't think cutting himself with the dagger would hurt him, yet alone kill him.

Lol, but in one of the books Fain takes the dagger and cuts himslef just for fun. I don't think cutting himself with the dagger would hurt him, yet alone kill him.

 

He didn't actually cut himself for fun. He accidently nicks himself putting the dagger away after having just killed an Accepted with it, then giggles at a thought (a seperate thought) as he sucks on the wound.

I have a feeling that Fain will survive. I would like it as well. If he does bite the dust he shouldnt do it easily

Fain is too evil to survive, he is determined to kill Rand so I think he will be at SG for the last battle.  Rand jumps around too much for him to find and Fain can easily use the ways to get there.

 

I don't remember, but why didn't Rand die from his cut, was it because he cut right on top the wound Ishy gave him?  The power of the dagger acts quickly so Rand should of been dead before getting anywhere near the city.