I've had this idea for opening the novice book to older women for some time. I wanted to run it past Owen and Taymist first, before working too much on it, just in case it was a flat no. They've given us the go ahead, though, so I'm sending you what I sent them - let me know what you think of the idea :)

 

In the Books, the novice book is opened to older women by the Salidar group. I'd like to do that at the PSW too, to keep it somewhat in sync with what happens in the Books (considering that we don't have the players for a formal split).

 

A rough outline of how this could work:

 

The Final Battle is approaching, various Aes Sedai are worried about the fact that there are simply not enough novices and Accepted who will reach the Shawl. A faction proposes that older women be allowed to join as novices. After much wrangling and debate (not necessarily all fully RPed out), the idea is accepted.

 

Aes Sedai are sent out to proclaim this, and search for women. (I think this would give RPers a nice opportunity to get out there and RP about something other than tea parties and their clothes :P)

 

I would suggest that most of these be non-sparkers, though the odd true Wilder would be interesting too.

 

As to how we would handle the novices: I would suggest a clear difference between the groups, ie:

 

1) "young" novices, who RP in Retro, and once raised can be any age (usually they pick to be 100 or older)

 

2) "older" novices, who would RP in current time, or maybe a year or so in Retro (I've not quite thought this through). The idea would be that by the time TG comes around, they'll have just been raised to Aes Sedai (we're a bit behind the time of the last books, right? a year or so?).

 

There are several ways to get them to Aes Sedai by the time TG rolls around. I would suggest a combination of the following:

a) This story would start a (very) few years back, so they would start their novice years slightly in Retro (but not as much as normal novices) - let's say they become Accepted in our current time line?

b) They will be "forced" (Aes Sedai panicking about the low numbers).

c) There's some mention in the Books of those older Salidar novices learning much faster than the more traditionally younger ones.

 

To help make the difference between "younger" and "older" novices clearer, they would:

a) have different IC MoNs (I propose an NSW MoN character for the "older" novices - both for the above reason, and to lighten the load on Lavi)

b) the 2 groups will not be allowed to RP together - they are NOT in the same time line.

 

In order for this not to become a stampede of people wanting to do JUST older novices, there would have to be a few negatives / drawbacks:

a) They're stuck with the age they started with (bar adding a few years) - ie they gain the Shawl in CURRENT time line (and that's the age they're stuck at), so if they were 40 when they started as novice, they'll be (let's say) 44 or so as Aes Sedai.

b) The character may not hold any IC position like MoN, Sitter, Ajah Head, etc - ever (except if we jump 100 years in time, at some stage ... lol).

c) We can even put in something like they're looked down at by the "older" Aes Sedai due to their accelerated raising - something like being a Wilder puts you just a little bit lower in the hierarchy than your Strength in the OP should put you.

 

"Younger" novices will have the "pro" of being able to RP themselves as "older" Aes Sedai, with all the bonuses attached to that, like becoming Sitters or Ajah Heads, etc.

 

I think this idea will lead to more RPs, and might even attract more members and/or characters. It opens up a whole new avenue for those who don't want to play the 15 year old, but rather someone with more of a history and who will have different struggles with being an initiate. Plus, as I said above, people with full Aes Sedai characters can use this opportunity to travel Randland searching for women who can learn to channel.

 

As I said, this is a rough draft - input would be most welcome.

Quick question, would this include inviting members of the Kin to join as older novices?

 

Also, a suggestion, I would say that having an "older" novice would require having one other character of at least Accepted level. I would also suggest limiting it to one "older" character, possibly two at the most for those with a full Aes Sedai character.

I didn't have time to add in some extra stuff Elgee and I already discussed - this was just her first email.

 

- There will definitely be a new MoN for old novices. Pia = Retro young novices, New MoN = Old novices main time line novices only. The new MoN will be played by Amadine when the time comes.

 

Gah blank...was there anything else? I can't find my reply to the email, Elgee.

 

 

I agree that this should only be available as a second or third character. I would want to see any other character raised first. So say they have a character they raised to accepted, I don't think the 'old' novice should be allowed to be raised to Aes Sedai until the first character has been raised. Maybe we could go so far as to say that you must have one Aes Sedai character before your 'old' novice can progress pass novicehood. Just a thought.

 

c) We can even put in something like they're looked down at by the "older" Aes Sedai due to their accelerated raising - something like being a Wilder puts you just a little bit lower in the hierarchy than your Strength in the OP should put you.

 

I totally agree with this. Your old fashioned 20+ years to get raised Aes Sedai will definitely look down their noses at these older women, even after they're raised. I can see them being treated much like Nynaeve and Faolain are in Salidar - not Accepted any more but not true Aes Sedai either. Of course I'm sure there will be the odd exception where certain characters aren't total bitches, but as a general rule they would sit at the lower end of the hierarchy, despite strength.

 

 

I think that's all I have to add for now hehe.

So, I'm guessing it's a no on the Kin, then? Sorry, you're confusing me since most of your post seemed to be responding to your original post. lol

Quick question, would this include inviting members of the Kin to join as older novices?

 

 

No, it would not. Myst and I discussed this, and we're both agreed that no Kin will be joining the WT as a novice, or anything else. This is a totally separate issue from the Kin (just like it is in the Books). Maybe later we'll look at the Kin story arc, but not now.

 

We're looking at straightforward "normal" people who hear about the proclamation and ask to be tested (or maybe get bullied into testing by an AS  :P). The odd Wilder will be accepted, but very few (just like with the younger novices) - they will be true Wilders, though, like some village Wisdom or something. Those types would technically fall under FL (as Freebooters), so we'll have to work out the finer details with Myst.

 

Also, a suggestion, I would say that having an "older" novice would require having one other character of at least Accepted level. I would also suggest limiting it to one "older" character, possibly two at the most for those with a full Aes Sedai character.

 

I agree that this should only be available as a second or third character. I would want to see any other character raised first. So say they have a character they raised to accepted, I don't think the 'old' novice should be allowed to be raised to Aes Sedai until the first character has been raised. Maybe we could go so far as to say that you must have one Aes Sedai character before your 'old' novice can progress pass novicehood. Just a thought.

 

I'm against this. We're trying to get more people to RP, and opening up further possibilities is what this is about. Limiting this any more than the checks and balances already put in place as per my outline (the first post Lavi put up here) is just going to complicate matters, with no real gain.

 

You're allowed 3 characters at the WT. Your 1st one HAS to go through all the reqs from novicehood to Aes Sedai. Whether that novice does her reqs in retro, or (almost) in main timeline, makes no difference - they'll be exactly the same reqs.

 

If you want to make your 2nd/3rd character(s) younger or older is also up to you. Not everyone wants to play a Sitter or an Ajah Head or any kind of IC "staff" position, so why force someone to make a character that must have the required age to be those? I say let people make their own choices of what types of approved WT characters they want to play.

Speaking as FL DL for a moment here. Which means speaking for all channelers that are not in the White Tower or Congress of the Shadow or Black Tower.

 

This means: Aiel, Kin, Seafolk, Seanchan and Freebooters.

The Freebooters are everyone from beggar to King that don't belong in any specific organization.

 

Kin: the Kin will not be allowed to respond to this invitation from the White Tower as not to endanger their secret existence. The announcement itself will, of course, create a rather big buzz in the Kin but (for now) the Kin Leaders will not allow anyone to go that road (excepting, as always, those Kin that are found out by Sisters to be runaways from the WT). All Kin have been made to give the highest Oath not to betray the Kin to any the Kin deems advisary, so unless they are relieved of that Oath they are not going to disobey the general directive.

 

Freebooter channelers: these are free to do as they please. So these could decide to take the WT up on their offer.

 

Aiel: it's very unlikely any Wise One or their apprentices will respond to this invitation.

 

Seafolk: the Windfinders won't willingly accept this invitation as the thought of spending so much time 'shorebound' is horrifying to them. It might be possible (but extremely rare) that an odd windfinder apprentice begs an Aes Sedai to help her to join the WT but this is on a case-to-case basis, to be approved by the FL Staff.

 

Seanchan: at the moment, the Seanchan are still at the beginning of the Forerunners RP Arc, so untill that is done there will be no contact between WT channelers and Seanchan channelers just yet. Once we've caught up in this RP Arc of PSW we can see which direction we'll take but it is not impossible that things might turn out as in the books. At this time, it is still way too soon to tell for the Seanchan though. (I admit, that whole RP Arc is a bit dodgy. They're still at the beginning stage of the Forerunners and at the same time there's also an unfinished RP Arc about kidnapping the DotNM. *shakes head*)

 

 

I hope this helps :)

I think this is a great idea. I had spoken to Elgee about it when the thoughts were still ruminating  ;)  I also can see how I could get Serena  and the Blue Ajah involved (a GREAT Cause!!), and believe it might help in the Alliance issue as well. There will definately be Sisters who do not agree, and Sisters who feel that it would be a good idea.

 

It's still tough for me to think about how the Older Novices will be in Main Plotline, or Retro a couple of years, but it wont take long for my mind to wrap around the idea.

 

If you need help with anything, let me know!

*bumpity*

 

Anyone got ideas on the time line? Should we do it slightly in retro? How much?

Well, you'll have to give them time to be allowed to grow the character to Aes Sedai level, so that would have to be at least twenty years IC from main plotline. Assuming we're going to stick to the 10 years Novice and 10 years Accepted standard. I would also allow a year or two for spread of allowing older novices to be from different groups of new Novices. So, say, 20 to 25 years in retro for the older novices?

 

 

No, we won't be sticking to the 10/10 year thing. This is what I said in my original email:

 

There are several ways to get them to Aes Sedai by the time TG rolls around. I would suggest a combination of the following:

a) This story would start a (very) few years back, so they would start their novice years slightly in Retro (but not as much as normal novices) - let's say they become Accepted in our current time line?

b) They will be "forced" (Aes Sedai panicking about the low numbers).

c) There's some mention in the Books of those older Salidar novices learning much faster than the more traditionally younger ones

.

 

For the sake of practicalities, and the storyline, I'd like to go with the following:

They get raised much faster than "younger" novices. We have the precedent of the Wondergirls getting raised in less than 2 years total, but I think that might be pushing it a little.

Sorry, was too tired when I made that response, *sigh*

 

Okay, that makes sense, but two years? If you don't want to allow any to get to Aes Sedai level I'd say yes, but you were talking somewhere about some of them becoming full Aes Sedai, yes? If so then I'd say make it more like 4 or 5. The current Aes Sedai want to make sure that the newcomers learned patience, even if they were already able to do things at Aes Sedai skill level.

Good points, Taei.

 

I'd like to keep it to the absolute minimum time we can get away with, though.

 

Firstly, they're not teenagers, with all the distractions and handicaps that go with that. Think of it this way - you're in your late teens or early twenties at high school / college / university. Your hormones are acting up, parties etc are so much more interesting than studying. You're not really sure what you want to do with your life.

 

However, let's say you're a mature person who's experienced life, blah blah. You are given the opportunity to study and become something you never dreamt you would be able to. You're going to knuckle down and concentrate your ass off on that, aren't you? Plus, you have much more discipline, maybe from the experience of working for a living for 20 or 30 years, or raising a family, etc. When you're 15 or 16, you're immortal and the future seems ... waaaaay down the line. When you're 30 or 40 or 50, you know that the future is today and there's no guarantee you'll see it.

 

All of that should (mostly - there will be the exceptions, of course!) make for N&A who are able to absorb and learn faster, and don't need the time to still grow up, that younger N&A would.

They'll probably be given less "make-work" chores than "younger" novices because hey, they've already got character  :P ... so they can spend even more time studying.

 

Add to that the fact that they will be "forced", especially once they reach Accepted, and you're going to cut down their average raising time from 20 years to about 5 or 6.

 

 

And I'd like to get this thing up and running asap, so here's what I want to run with, unless anyone comes up with really good objections in the next 48 hours:

 

We're supposedly in the year 1000NE now. We fudge the time line and say we opened up the Novice Book about 5 years ago.

That gives them (let's say) 3 years as Novices, and then the AS really start panicking because all the signs are showing that TG is just around the corner. The decision is made to start forcing these Novices even more than they have been, to get as many of them raised to the Shawl and ready for TG as possible.

 

Gotcha, so basically it would normally be about 5 for each level, but since they're in a rush they force them even faster than that. I understand. :) Sounds good to me.

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