Glasses = Milton

Latino = Martinez

Big Black Guy = Tyreese

Semi Hot Daughter = Sasha (I think)

re-Daryl - he agreed to give up Michone reluctantly from my perspective. he is loyal, you can't discount how he stood up for his brother.  he's fair in his treatement of people in the group (unlike Shane), and i'd trust him to gaurd my back and get a job done over alot of the others in the group.  you can also trust that hes not goign to try and usurp Ricks authority (like Shane) whcih is not what the group needs.

 

Daryl would step up and take command of the group if they needed leadership, but he's content just to be a group follower that does what needs to be done for the wellfair of the group; and he's not into creating or starting drama.  hes a good member, pulls his weight and doesn't complain about his place in the group.  i woudl choose him over Shane any day of the week.

 

 

 

 

i dream with you Soy.
 
see, she was gonna kill the Governor, but then backed out like a creeper.  and then even more so, whines about needign to get away and then does waht, gets back into the truck with the governor.
 
 
seriously Andrea.  grow a pair or go get biten.  she's the fricking Bella of the Walking Dead.
 
 
 
edit - i can't see what will be the obsticle after this season if the Governor is killed.  so either its left unresolved or the group moves on.  i do not want Hershel to die *sulks*  i dont care if it doens't make since realistically speaking for him to survive.

umm... She didn't just go into his truck willy nilly, she was captured, and probably forced into said truck. This, obviously happened off-screen.
 
Besides, this whole hate-on-andrea for not being a cold-blooded-human-killer? really?
Did nothing Hershel said last season about killing zombies and not knowing when to stop (aka, killing humans) sink in with anyone at all?
They are trying to make Andrea, Human. Killing zombies all day, zombies that were human and killing living humans, are supposed to be two very different things. And she choose not to, kill a living human in cold blood regardless of how much the man may have deserved it... And she's called weak!?
Please!
 
It takes more balls, to not kill someone, then it does to kill them.

I believe what red was referring to was a few episodes ago when she found out that rick and co. were in the prisona nd snuck out of woobury to go see them. then even after learning what the goernor had done still went back to him. then again after the summit she still chose to go back to woobury with him. It's her blatant disregard for the obvious that makes me hate her. not that she's not a cold blooded killer.

 

^ this.  she even stated many times "he needs to be killed" but what does she do ... she jumps into bed with him the first chance she gets.

 

she had a choice to leave with Rick at the barn, she CHOSE to get back into the truck with the Govenor.  they didn't force her back into the truck, and Rick and Co would have killed the Gov and his men if they had tried to stop Andrea from leaving and commign with them and the Gov woudl have just let her go.  she wasn't forced, she made a concious decision (many times) to stay with the Govenor. 

 

and she IS weak.  she relys on men to do things for her.  she did the same with Shane imo. 

she prostitutes herself to men, pure exchange of services.

 

plus she's an idiot. 

and she IS weak.  she relys on men to do things for her

And that's why she jumped the wall and stabbed a walker in the face, to show the defenders on the town wall how it was done?

there was no sense of risk to her.  had she not killed the walker or gotten into a bad situation she had a group that woudl have come to her aid.

 

we all get into pissing contests and showing bravado when we're in a group.

there was no sense of risk to her.  had she not killed the walker or gotten into a bad situation she had a group that woudl have come to her aid.

 

we all get into pissing contests and showing bravado when we're in a group.

 

But, if all she did was laze around, wanting men to do shit for her, She'd never have done that.

 

No, she would have talked the governer into going down there himself, and stabbing a few walkers in the face, to show who is the baddest mofo in town.

 

Being a wimpy  relying on men character, and jumping a wall, and stabbing walkers in the face, are not the same character trait.

 

And having a group of people, backing you up, incase something goes wrong.... Uhh.. yea that's why they are all in groups!

and you just missed my point SD

and you just missed my point SD

No, I got it what your saying, but what we have here, is two conflicting versions of what is going on.

 

You are saying, she wants 'men' to do things for her. to protect her. But why would someone who wants to be protected, go out into a field, and prove she doesn't need to be protected?

The kind of character you are talking about, is someone who puts themselves in danger, so they can be Rescued.

 

Let me put it this way.

Why would Andrea, want the governer to be the big-bad-ass that protects her from all danger.

Then jump off a wall, face stab 10 zombies (regardless of danger with onlookers, because lets face it, they are always in a group, watching each others back. That doesn't mean there is no danger. It just helps with being overwhelmed) proving she doesn't need his help?

 

It would be one thing, if she attempted to face-stab 10 zombies and then got overwhelmed and needed the governor to come rescue her. And its an entirely different one, where she can actually handle her self, and attempts to make the other men, around her, realize, they don't need to watch her back like she was a delicate little flower.

 

The Andrea from Season 1 & 2 is not the same Andrea in Season 3.

Having to survive on her own, before meeting up with Michone, changed her character fundimentally. She grew a pair learning to survive on her own, and realize, just how much she needs a group, and that she needs to be apart of that said group, and not just sit back playing princess. Hence, face stabbing zombies to show Martinez and the Governor, that she wants to help the group, and not that she needs to be protected. It may have been a pissing contest, But someone who does what you described earlier, wouldn't do that.

 

And hey. want to talk about loyalty?

If she killed the governor, and went to rick.

Would we trust her?

The Governor trusted her.

And then she stabbed him while he slept, because someone told her something bad about the guy, and she had (at the time) no real evidence to support their claim... Could Rick then.. trust Andrea to not kill him if someone said something behind his back?

 

She's far more trustworthy of a character, not killing the governor then, then if she had made it back to the group, without killing  him. Abandoning a group (loyalty wise) is a hellava lot better, then abandoning a group, after killing their leader.

 

Remember Ghengis Kahn? When he asked other clans/tribes to betray their Kahn's, They did so. And when they came back for their reward. he killed them, for not obeying their Kahn. If they were willing to show disloyalty, and murder their leader, how could he trust them not to do it to him?

he's fair in his treatement of people in the group (unlike Shane)

When was Shane unfair?

 

you can also trust that hes not goign to try and usurp Ricks authority (like Shane) whcih is not what the group needs.

Well actually Shane was the defacto leader before Rick showed up. After Rick killed him they didn't have much choice but to put their lot in with Rick.

 

but he's content just to be a group follower that does what needs to be done for the wellfair of the group;

Except when he's throwing an emo fit and goes off and does his own thing.

 

The Andrea from Season 1 & 2 is not the same Andrea in Season 3.

Very true. I harp on character development in this show a lot but to be fair I think Glenn is the only one who hasn't changed at all in three seasons.

shhhh it's time to pretend to sleep

Daryl is very much not a leader.  He is a definite follower.  At best he's a #2 man.   His morals are dictated by the person he is following.  He was just as content to follow his brothers immoral behavior as he had been following Rick lead.

 

Would love him in my group cause he's loyal and an effective henchman.  But I'd never follow the guy.  He has no direction of his own. 

there is no direction but animal survival.

 

he is the best leader of all. the one who doesn't want to lead.

 

the one that can survive alone.

He definitely has skills. That's why I'd like him on my team.  He's no leader though.

he's my leader wouldn't trust anyone else

lol I watched you play wouldnt trust you nevah no how :)

lol I watched you play wouldnt trust you nevah no how :)

You know..if you aren't willing to put yourself on the stage..you really shouldn't comment on others play. 

I think it was meant to be a compliment...

I think it was meant to be a compliment...

I hope so.

 

and you just missed my point SD

No, I got it what your saying, but what we have here, is two conflicting versions of what is going on.

 

You are saying, she wants 'men' to do things for her. to protect her. But why would someone who wants to be protected, go out into a field, and prove she doesn't need to be protected?

The kind of character you are talking about, is someone who puts themselves in danger, so they can be Rescued.

 

Let me put it this way.

Why would Andrea, want the governer to be the big-bad-ass that protects her from all danger.

Then jump off a wall, face stab 10 zombies (regardless of danger with onlookers, because lets face it, they are always in a group, watching each others back. That doesn't mean there is no danger. It just helps with being overwhelmed) proving she doesn't need his help?

 

It would be one thing, if she attempted to face-stab 10 zombies and then got overwhelmed and needed the governor to come rescue her. And its an entirely different one, where she can actually handle her self, and attempts to make the other men, around her, realize, they don't need to watch her back like she was a delicate little flower.

 

The Andrea from Season 1 & 2 is not the same Andrea in Season 3.

Having to survive on her own, before meeting up with Michone, changed her character fundimentally. She grew a pair learning to survive on her own, and realize, just how much she needs a group, and that she needs to be apart of that said group, and not just sit back playing princess. Hence, face stabbing zombies to show Martinez and the Governor, that she wants to help the group, and not that she needs to be protected. It may have been a pissing contest, But someone who does what you described earlier, wouldn't do that.

 

And hey. want to talk about loyalty?

If she killed the governor, and went to rick.

Would we trust her?

The Governor trusted her.

And then she stabbed him while he slept, because someone told her something bad about the guy, and she had (at the time) no real evidence to support their claim... Could Rick then.. trust Andrea to not kill him if someone said something behind his back?

 

She's far more trustworthy of a character, not killing the governor then, then if she had made it back to the group, without killing  him. Abandoning a group (loyalty wise) is a hellava lot better, then abandoning a group, after killing their leader.

 

Remember Ghengis Kahn? When he asked other clans/tribes to betray their Kahn's, They did so. And when they came back for their reward. he killed them, for not obeying their Kahn. If they were willing to show disloyalty, and murder their leader, how could he trust them not to do it to him?

 

just because she has the skills needed to kill Walkers doesn't change what she is deep inside.  she's a coward and a manipulative bitch that hides behind others and uses sex to create security.  she slept with Shane when he was in charge, she incouraged him to challenge Rick for authority of the group.  if she was still with the group, she'd be sleeping with Rick, and if Lori was still alive trying to sleep with Rick.  infact, i bet you she was sleeping with Michone while they were together for those 6 months.

 

you say she's changed, yet the first thing she did when she got to Woodbury was sleep with the guy in charge.

 

you say she's changed, but look at her treatment of Michone.  the woman was her companion for 6 months, cared for her when she was deathly ill when in all honesty Michone could have left her seeing as Andrea was a liability at that point.  you say Andrea protected herself for those 6 months, i say she hid behind Michone for those 6 months.

 

and what thanks does she give Michone?  the first minute they get into a group she ignores what her companion tells her and jumps in bed with a person who has more power than Michone and can provide more protection.  Michone leaves, begs Andrea to come with her and what is Andreas response?  "you just dont like other people any more and want me all to yourself, gtfo."

 

and you say that people liek that put themselves in situations to be rescued; no, they also put themselves in situations to rescue themselves where they know there is a slim chance of danger on their part to gain admiration and respect among the person their manipulating to make their manipulation of the person less detectable.

 

 

and you mention trust like you could trust her to begin with *scoffs*

 

 

 

 

he's fair in his treatement of people in the group (unlike Shane)

When was Shane unfair?

 

>you can also trust that hes not goign to try and usurp Ricks authority (like Shane) whcih is not what the group needs.

Well actually Shane was the defacto leader before Rick showed up. After Rick killed him they didn't have much choice but to put their lot in with Rick.

 

but he's content just to be a group follower that does what needs to be done for the wellfair of the group;

Except when he's throwing an emo fit and goes off and does his own thing.

 

The Andrea from Season 1 & 2 is not the same Andrea in Season 3.

Very true. I harp on character development in this show a lot but to be fair I think Glenn is the only one who hasn't changed at all in three seasons.

 

 

#1 - how about what happened at the farm?  attempting to kill Rick and take Lori from him?  tryign to divid the group because he felt he shoudl be leader and not Rick?  his treatment of women and outcasting members of the group.  i'm sure once i watch season 1 i'll have alot more to add to this; i've DVRd the showing from AMC

 

#2 - regaurdless of him being the defacto leader, when Rick did show up Shane constantly tried to wrestle leadership from Rick and constantly tried to take Ricks wife and son from him. which did nothing but create inner turmoil within the group.  and the group threw their lot in with Rick by following him in the first place and by making him defacto leader of their group well before Rick killed Shane.  becuase they saw Rick was the more stable leader of the two.

 

Rick = Simba; Shane = Scar.   i'll go with Simba tyvm.

 

 

#3 - everyone in the group has gone through a moment like that.  Daryl felt like he was being outcasted by the group at the barn.  feelign like your being shunned by your family will do that to a person.  he was also reacting to the tension created by the Shane/Rick power struggle.  because Shane didn't know his place.

 

 

#4 - glenn has had character developement.  the glenn fom season 2 would not have taken that beating and kept his mouth shut.

 

 

 

Daryl is very much not a leader.  He is a definite follower.  At best he's a #2 man.   His morals are dictated by the person he is following.  He was just as content to follow his brothers immoral behavior as he had been following Rick lead.

 

Would love him in my group cause he's loyal and an effective henchman.  But I'd never follow the guy.  He has no direction of his own. 

 

no ones arguing that he is.  we're arguign over the likability of the character.  he is content to lead but he's also the type of person that is leadership were needed he'd supply it until a new leader was found then woudl give up that leadership and have no problem fallign back into being a follower.

 

he's basically Perrin imo.

no ones arguing that he is.  we're arguign over the likability of the character.  he is content to lead but he's also the type of person that is leadership were needed he'd supply it until a new leader was found then woudl give up that leadership and have no problem fallign back into being a follower.

Best leaders, are those that don't want to lead. But will if pressed/forced into it.

Those that want to be leaders, want that power...They become the Governor.

we agreed on something....

 

that can't be a good sign...

#1 - how about what happened at the farm?  attempting to kill Rick and take Lori from him?  tryign to divid the group because he felt he shoudl be leader and not Rick?  his treatment of women and outcasting members of the group.  i'm sure once i watch season 1 i'll have alot more to add to this; i've DVRd the showing from AMC

I don't see any of that as being unfair necessarily. His attempt to kill Rick may have been wrong but it was not based only on his feelings for Lori. Shane believed Rick was leading the group down the wrong path and yes he made an extremely underhanded play to get rid of him but calling it unfair just doesn't accurately describe the situation IMO. He was not trying to divide the group, the group was divided. What do you mean his treatment of women? Other than his pseudo rape of Lori I can't think of an instance where Shane mistreated a woman. Hell he beat Ed to a pulp when he was bullying the women in season one. And I'm not sure what you mean by outcasting either. Are you referring to his dislike of Dale? It seems to me that Shane was the second biggest outcast after Rick showed up.

 

#2 - regaurdless of him being the defacto leader, when Rick did show up Shane constantly tried to wrestle leadership from Rick and constantly tried to take Ricks wife and son from him. which did nothing but create inner turmoil within the group.  and the group threw their lot in with Rick by following him in the first place and by making him defacto leader of their group well before Rick killed Shane.  becuase they saw Rick was the more stable leader of the two.

I don't see what part of that is unfair though. Haven't you heard the saying "all is fair in love and war"? His actions surely weren't morally acceptable but I just don't feel like fairness comes into play here. Call me nitpicky.

its fairness to the group.  it was unfair to the wellfair of the group to create that drama, between his power struggle with Rick and treating members of the group as outcasts and treating woman like they were danty little things that needed protecting.  he may have voiced agaisnt the outright bullying, but he that doesn't mean he didn't veiw women as being less equal than men.

it was unfair to the wellfair of the group to create that drama,

But that's part of my point. The "drama" wasn't just about Lori and Carl, it was also about what was best for the group.

 

treating members of the group as outcasts 

Who did he treat like an outcast? 

 

treating woman like they were danty little things that needed protecting

As far as I can remember Shane never treated any of the women like that. At least not because they were women. If you're referring to times Shane wouldn't let Lori go off on her own that's because Shane is not only a former cop and knows that she is not trained to handle danger but also because he was a generally controlling person anyway. Even when he wasn't "leader" he was still an authority and used to people following his directions. And in the case of Lori there is also the fact that he's in love with her and has a fear of being alone so he would do anything to keep her from danger.

 

Take the example of Andrea. Once she learned how to shoot and proved she wasn't 100% helpless Shane almost went off with her.

Those are not the actions of someone who views women as incapable.

The day is finally here.