Ninja'd by Talya.

My theory is that they are NOT fake claiming their Roles.

 

My Theory is that the Mafia have Townie type Roles.

 

As for who is Mafia - tbh I am suspicious of you all, even Cloud for his 'I would know if Rand was lying about what happened last Night' post.

 

But if I use Occam's Razor then my top picks would be Rand, Ley and Mish.

 

Ley and Mish could also be lying about their Roles and could just be Goons. Their backing up of each other was a little too convenient.

 

But I'm also suspicious of you @ BG because you have been saying Townie Role = Townie Alignment a lot.

Mirror isn't on that site, so don't know, I've only ever seen it used as Mafia, it would make the owner of that role look town if viewed, when they are mafia, vig kills rebound, that rolew seems more likely mafia use in this game. However, JK can be any too, still not made my mind up about this one neither. If Dap is Mafia it would explain why they can't kill Cloud, because if he is blocked he is protected as well. So if that role is mafia, why have there been 3 nights with no kill....would the mafia really try to kill Cloud 3 times (as he has said that he has self protected).

 

At the moment I still have Rand at the top of my list. The rest below change as I think about their roles, or lack of them being killed etc.  

It would be great play if Mish and Ley were doing that, the only thing that stops me is the lack of informative roles in the game. A 2 x shot Cop, so that is my reason for thinking for the moment that Ley maybe town. His play hasn't been great, however, I have found with informative roles, that they end up chosing people I wouldn't have, but I'm sure when I have those roles people would stay the same. 

 

Personally I think if Ley is Mafia so is Mish, and if Ley is Town, Mish could be either...or they both could be town. I find it harder to think that mish is town and Ley is Mafia - I can't get round BG's reasoning on that. 

Rand has been re-explaining things a lot.

 

Leyrann has been over explaining the reasons why he would need to lie, when we all know that the Mafia have to lie. He also pre-aplogised to me just in case I am Town lol. And it does not make sense for a Town Watcher to watch someone they think is Mafia, when they could have watched someone who they thought might be Killed and found us a Mafia. And he never watched Cloud either - just to see if he did visit himself, evidence of self protecting would be useful, or he might have seen a Kill attempt.

 

Mish said she thought I was Mafia but then came out and said I had totally FAILED at playing this game. If she thought I was Mafia surely she would think I had been successful - as Mafia don't want any Mafia Lynched.

Normally I don't have to do any of this figuring out stuff at the end. I'm usually dead by now and don't have to decide who to trust and who not to trust.

 

Here's another theory I have. All the people who have placed votes so far are Mafia. They were bait votes and they are just sitting there waiting for another to join in and then they will change their vote and force the Lynch.

 

And if not all of them then certainly at least a couple I think. Hence my urge for caution.

 

But at the end of the Day - all you can do is do your best and go for what you believe in. I'm just not ready to do that yet.

Ithi - I don't understand where you get "Townie Role = Townie Alignment" thing on me. Was it this post below? Cause that's not what I'm saying at all. Never did. But its the only place I can see where I might have been misunderstood to say something like that. If there was something else, please let me know, cause I don't believe I've said anything like that 

 

 

 

Rand - He does seem to starting his method of near lynch flail under heavy scrutiny. He's got an explanation for everything, which to me says he's trying too hard to vet his words as sounding town. "I used 'scum' instead of 'Mafia' specifically in this case... blah blah..." But he does seem to do this town or mafia, so its a hard tell. The crutch to me comes down to how he didn't die if chuckles targeted him (or not?). I can't figure it out unless there really is a RB, but then why isn't Cloud dead? Is it more likely he'd survive as town or mafia? His role does seem to explain it, but it is quite convenient. In my experience, Mirrors are more often town. I've seen a lot more mafia watchers. 

 

@Rand - Did you have to choose to use your 1X mirror or is it passive and auto-used?

 

@Ithi - I don't remember anyone voting since your cowboy standoff really. Maybe I missed something.

 

I don't think the chances of Ley and Mish both coming to the conclusion to target Ithi is probable. Nothing about Rand's explanations has been worse than Leyrann's errors in my opinion honestly. If Leyrann really did target Ithi as town watcher, then she told the truth about Mish. I haven't ever seen a visitor in a game, seems like a balance to a watcher. It seems like the role is direct responsibility is to discover a watcher type role. Using the assumption of Mish = town for a moment, it seems more like a balancing role to me. Doc to NK, Cop to GF (or miller, or limited shot Cop), watcher to visitor. Watcher's discover visitors or visitors validate watchers. I'm just trying to think if I were mod, I'd have them on opposite teams.

 

I think we need to narrow this down:

 

Can everyone rank their top 3 options for votes: Mine are still...

 

1. Leyrann

2. Dap

3. Rand

 

Then we can tally the totals and come to some sort of agreement on who deserves to be lynched most.

It would be great play if Mish and Ley were doing that, the only thing that stops me is the lack of informative roles in the game. A 2 x shot Cop, so that is my reason for thinking for the moment that Ley maybe town. His play hasn't been great, however, I have found with informative roles, that they end up chosing people I wouldn't have, but I'm sure when I have those roles people would stay the same. 

 

Personally I think if Ley is Mafia so is Mish, and if Ley is Town, Mish could be either...or they both could be town. I find it harder to think that mish is town and Ley is Mafia - I can't get round BG's reasoning on that. 

 

At least we agree that it is still fishy. Your money is more on Mish being mafia out of the two, my money's on Ley. We might both be right.

Just because I'm curious @ BG

 

Why is the part of your post after 'Ithi - I don't understand where you get ...' Copied and pasted from somewhere else?

Copied and pasted your townie role alignment thingy and the formatting stuck.

Ithi you should go back and look over Maws posts, I'm busy right now but ill do it later

 

I'm leaning towards Ley being the mafia, mish being town

I still don't have my reply boxes back, so I decided to just email myself with the things I wanted to say and copy the text over from my phone.

 

To explain why I would have noticed that Rand was alive thanks to my PR if I decided to protect him:

 

I get a confirmation from Darthe if my protect has been succesful or not, but since I have been self-protecting each Night and haven't died yet that info was never useful to me. This is also the reason why I would have known if my protect was in fact the ability that saved Rand. I however didn't know that a Mirror would bounce off both kills and protects; I thought it would only bounce off kills. If I did send in a protect on him last Night, and I got the reply from Darthe back that my protect has been succesful I would have assumed that I had blocked Chuckles' vig shot.

 

Dap > Rand: "That's why I was going to jail you.... Stop the NK that way"

 

So you were planning in Jailing Rand to block his NK, while at the same time protecting him from Chuckles' Vig shot? This doesn't make any sense if you were sure that Rand was mafia.

 

To comment on the whole Ley / Mish thing:

 

3 for Ley 5 for Mish

 

My top three lynch options:

 

1. Ley, him visiting Ithi doesn't make any sense to me. He was convinced that she was mafia yesterday, and still he visited her last Night on the off chance that she was actually Town. He started back paddeling today from his previous statements and vote on Ithi. 2. Dap, his play has been off and like yesterday I'm still really unsure about his claim. 3. Ed, he didn't do his usual casing in this game and yet he seems very convinced that Dap and Rand are mafia.

Official Vote Count 1:

 

Ley (1/5): BG

Ithi (1/5): Ley

Dap (1/5): Ed

Ed (1/5): Rand

 

Not voting (5/9):

Mish, Ithi, Talya, Cloud, Dap

 

Deadline is : 48 hours.

 

 

Hello all, I have extended the deadline because several people cannot currently access the website.  Please note that if you live in Australia  Europe, or North America then your connection error is external but if you do not live in these countries then the reason you are unable to access is that you have been temporarily blocked to prevent site crashes.  You should probably attempt to get a message to me requesting replacement if this is the case.

Rand - He does seem to starting his method of near lynch flail under heavy scrutiny. He's got an explanation for everything, which to me says he's trying too hard to vet his words as sounding town. "I used 'scum' instead of 'Mafia' specifically in this case... blah blah..." But he does seem to do this town or mafia, so its a hard tell. The crutch to me comes down to how he didn't die if chuckles targeted him (or not?). I can't figure it out unless there really is a RB, but then why isn't Cloud dead? Is it more likely he'd survive as town or mafia? His role does seem to explain it, but it is quite convenient. In my experience, Mirrors are more often town. I've seen a lot more mafia watchers. 

 

@Rand - Did you have to choose to use your 1X mirror or is it passive and auto-used?

 

@Ithi - I don't remember anyone voting since your cowboy standoff really. Maybe I missed something.

 

I don't think the chances of Ley and Mish both coming to the conclusion to target Ithi is probable. Nothing about Rand's explanations has been worse than Leyrann's errors in my opinion honestly. If Leyrann really did target Ithi as town watcher, then she told the truth about Mish. I haven't ever seen a visitor in a game, seems like a balance to a watcher. It seems like the role is direct responsibility is to discover a watcher type role. Using the assumption of Mish = town for a moment, it seems more like a balancing role to me. Doc to NK, Cop to GF (or miller, or limited shot Cop), watcher to visitor. Watcher's discover visitors or visitors validate watchers. I'm just trying to think if I were mod, I'd have them on opposite teams.

 

I think we need to narrow this down:

 

Can everyone rank their top 3 options for votes: Mine are still...

 

1. Leyrann

2. Dap

3. Rand

 

Then we can tally the totals and come to some sort of agreement on who deserves to be lynched most.

I had to use the mirror on a specific day, so I was waiting until I thought I might be NKed, because otherwise the mirror wouldn't really do too much that would be effective.  I think thats why Darthe gave it to me to use when I needed, so it wouldn't reflect off a visit or a cop view or anything like that, because that would have wasted the role.

 

Here are some things I've been thinking about. In various people's lists and reasonings they have been saying - such and such perhaps seems off, but they have a Town Role and so they must be Town.

 

Not really, a lot of people have been suspicious of Dap, there were a lot suspicious of Chuckles, Dap suspected the masons, and RTE was suspected a lot as well.  On the contrary, I think that this game has relied less on roles as innoing devices than in most other games I have played.

 

Another thing I want people to remember is that the only Mafia who has died this Game was a Gladiator - which is a traditional Town type Role.

 

This is mentioned later, but I think both times I played with a gladiator, they were mafia.  Wait, scratch that, I think in DPR's game, EP was the gladiator, and I think he may have been town, which is probably what you're remembering as you were co-mod.  The point is, it isn't always a town role, and is fairly ambiguous.

 

The final thing to throw into the equations is that in this Game people make stuff up. If they are Mafia and have an obviously Mafia type role then they aren't going to claim them - they are going to make up different more Townie sounding Roles.

 

Right.

 

So, people who are blindly accepting that everyone is telling the truth about what Role they have are making me very nervous. Especially people who are doing the 'X is suspect but they have a Town Role.

 

I don't know if you are referring to me or not when I did my role analysis, but I made sure that when I did mine, I took into account whether or not it would be a fake claim and what effect the role would have, so not taking it at face value.  Don't really see too many people doing this, as I mentioned before.

 

This is my suspicion. I don't think there are any traditional mafia type Roles in this Game. I think they all have Town type Roles. Maw was a Gladiator.

 

I think that you are referring to ambiguous roles, not town roles.  Town roles, are basically what they are called, only for town.  So like a cop for instance would be next to useless for mafia as they already know all alignments except the occasional third party.  Also, ambiguous roles for mafia is very common, there are a few that aren't such as godfather, busdriver (I think) and things like that, but a lot of mafia roles such as roleblocker, informative roles, poisoning roles, instakills, and so on can be given to town as well, because most roles are ambiguous, so I don't see your point about this, since this is fairly common.

 

Also when Rand wrote out his list of who he thought was and wasn't Mafia - he used the term Vanilla for people he called Mafia. I think this is probably because there is at least 1 Vanilla Mafia on his QT. Traditionally a non roled Mafia would be called a Goon. Rand using the term Vanilla for it seemed off.

 

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Vanilla - I added this link in, this shows where I get my vanilla for mafia from.

 

But I think Darthe has not used any traditional Roles for the Mafia.

 

That is a possibility, but another thing I would like to point out is that some traditional roles, like mafia roleblocker, are also known as town roles as well, so traditional roles and only mafia roles are not the same.

 

BG has commented on the Towness of people because of their Roles.

 

His main suspects are Ley, Mish, and I if I recall correctly, all of us are roles.

 

I'm sorry that's a bit rambling. I will try and summarise then I need to make Tea.

 

I don't think there are ANY traditional Mafia Roles. I think the Mafia have Town type Roles.

And I'm suspicious of anyone who is accepting any Role Claim at face value when normally we all know that the Mafia would have to fake a claim.

 

I see you saying this a lot, but I don't think anyone is accepting it at face value, I think most of us have given reasons.

 

Finally - BG, do you think that everyone on the Mafia Team had a Power Role of some kind? Do you not think that at least one would be un roled?

 

If you disagree with my Townie Role type Theory, why do you seem to accept all Roles at face value? And if you don't, who do you think is Fake Claiming?

 

 

Well yes I'm suspicious cos it's my Theory and I only just posted about it. Unless you can read my mind, or were having the same thoughts, then I would expect more people to be suspicious of the Roles Claimed so far - but I just hear that they are Town Roles - so they are probably Town.

 

I can't really find instances of this, can you quote some for me?

 

But Maw was a Gladiator - which is a Town Role, and Rand used the term Vanilla for un-roled Mafia, when traditionally they are Goons.

Is difficult to explain and would be a lot easier face to face lol - but if they all have Townie type Roles then they don't have to fake claim and they can all just keep pushing the, yes they are a bot off but they have a Town Role - so must be Town.

 

That way if one gets knocked down, the rest can point out that they did say they thought they were acting off, but they had a Town Role.

 

I just don't think it's easy enough to say Town Role = Town Alignment.

 

Either Darthe gave them Townie Type Roles to make this game more 'interesting' like he gave Maw, or some of them are lying about their Roles and so also can't be trusted.

 

That's why I say I don't like anyone accepting them at face value, because traditionally Town knows Mafia lies about their Roles OR because they know they don't have to lie this time.

 

If you have time for a cup of tea I can sit down and explain it much better.

 

 

 

Mirror isn't on that site, so don't know, I've only ever seen it used as Mafia, it would make the owner of that role look town if viewed, when they are mafia, vig kills rebound, that rolew seems more likely mafia use in this game. However, JK can be any too, still not made my mind up about this one neither. If Dap is Mafia it would explain why they can't kill Cloud, because if he is blocked he is protected as well. So if that role is mafia, why have there been 3 nights with no kill....would the mafia really try to kill Cloud 3 times (as he has said that he has self protected).

 

At the same time, town can use it to deflect mafia kills back onto the killer, if a mafia tries to roleblock them, you can roleblock them back and maybe even block their kill, and basically any other PRs that mafia have could be reflected to cause havoc on the mafia team.  Thats why its usually seen as a role that can be on both sides.  And there being no kills doesn't necessarily mean Cloud protected someone, if Dap is town, then he could have roleblocked someone and stopped the kill, the mafia could have forgotten a kill (I really hope they did, that would be hilarious. ), or they shot an unkillable or something like that.  

 

At the moment I still have Rand at the top of my list. The rest below change as I think about their roles, or lack of them being killed etc.  

 

 

Normally I don't have to do any of this figuring out stuff at the end. I'm usually dead by now and don't have to decide who to trust and who not to trust.

 

Here's another theory I have. All the people who have placed votes so far are Mafia. They were bait votes and they are just sitting there waiting for another to join in and then they will change their vote and force the Lynch.

 

By the same reasoning though, you can say that all the people not voting are mafia and they are waiting for a train to start and will then leap on to finish it off while not getting their hands as dirty on the train.  I think that the mafia are split between voting and not voting so that they aren't easily caught.

 

And if not all of them then certainly at least a couple I think. Hence my urge for caution.

 

But at the end of the Day - all you can do is do your best and go for what you believe in. I'm just not ready to do that yet.

I still don't have my reply boxes back, so I decided to just email myself with the things I wanted to say and copy the text over from my phone.

To explain why I would have noticed that Rand was alive thanks to my PR if I decided to protect him:

I get a confirmation from Darthe if my protect has been succesful or not, but since I have been self-protecting each Night and haven't died yet that info was never useful to me. This is also the reason why I would have known if my protect was in fact the ability that saved Rand. I however didn't know that a Mirror would bounce off both kills and protects; I thought it would only bounce off kills. If I did send in a protect on him last Night, and I got the reply from Darthe back that my protect has been succesful I would have assumed that I had blocked Chuckles' vig shot.

a mirror reflects everything, even a RB generally

Dap > Rand: "That's why I was going to jail you.... Stop the NK that way"

So you were planning in Jailing Rand to block his NK, while at the same time protecting him from Chuckles' Vig shot? This doesn't make any sense if you were sure that Rand was mafia. that's why I didn't jail rand in the end. Cos I thought chuckled might shoot him. If it wasn't for chuckles I would of

To comment on the whole Ley / Mish thing:

3 for Ley 5 for Mish

My top three lynch options:

1. Ley, him visiting Ithi doesn't make any sense to me. He was convinced that she was mafia yesterday, and still he visited her last Night on the off chance that she was actually Town. He started back paddeling today from his previous statements and vote on Ithi. 2. Dap, his play has been off and like yesterday I'm still really unsure about his claim. 3. Ed, he didn't do his usual casing in this game and yet he seems very convinced that Dap and Rand are mafia.

Hey. Vote Dap.

 

He likes to put certain appendages in sheep.

That one went straight over my head.

Hey. Vote Dap.

 

He likes to put certain appendages in sheep.

  

Thats the lamest case I've ever seen

It's also not true

That one went straight over my head.

Ask him to explain on the QT, not really DM appropriate

 

Hey. Vote Dap.

 

He likes to put certain appendages in sheep.

  

Thats the lamest case I've ever seen

It's also not true

 

Yup, this is pretty much what I expect from him now.

That one went straight over my head.

Ask him to explain on the QT, not really DM appropriate

 

Ahh, I'll just look it up

 

 

 

Yea dont google that

I didn't find anything...

>.>

Google Kiwis and Sheep. And sex.

Or not. He's still a kid ed

Lol dap its fine, I got exposed to most of this stuff when I was 10, I'm used to this.  OK, lets get back to the game now, sorry for the distraction.

But thanks for the thought.