keyholder21

And @Cass What about since?????

@Cass - I actually am having some trouble reading this too, and like Verb, I don't mean to be a jerk. I'm legit trying to understand this. I think I'm reading that you sussed Turin first over the interactions with darthe and thinking they are W/W. Then you weren't sure how to feel about Turin's reaction/opinion to the IC reveal but you think some of the posts he went back and posted were from before Z's reveal? I don't understand the bolded part. I do understand the part about me and the thinking he's shady based on his misrep of me. Is that accurate?? @Verbal32 - I didn't quote yours, but okay, you're here today and Z hasn't been posting which has allowed you to stay current you said. Did you take the time to look at all at the people that you are suspicious of outside of the literal ONE post of each that you say you are sussing them over???

Hally is voting, she's voting DPR.

To be 100% completely fair, I don't know that this particular thing is AI for Cass? Maybe a smidge because she knows the deadline is close? That being said, she is one of my scum leans and I did say I would be willing to vote for her. I can take a second look at DPR tomorrow to see if I am tunneling. Unvote, Vote Cass

Oops, Ithi beat me to a new one while I was getting that quote. Sorry Ithi/thread!

@Cass

In each scenario, who are Turin's teammates iyo? I get that you sort of answered below, but I want a more specific answer on each side of the line, please. There's a lot of talk about Turin in this thread. Pulling out one sentence from all that he's said and all that has been said about him feels like a very easy way for wolf to jump on the top vote getter without tying themselves to a teammate. This is all just true statements. Not NAI imo. I think I answered this above? LMK if not.

Can you see how this is concerning to me? You're voting for your top sketch read but you don't say that when you put the vote on???? WTF is even this discussion?

That ^ was to @Hallia.

Was he? Where did you say that? Because he wasn't even mentioned in this post where you are discussing possible wolves. And when I am looking through your posts courtesy of your profile, I don't see anything that mentions your feeling on him outside of your vote. You do question him at one point saying that you don't like it when people don't provide explanations, but as far as I can see that is the only hint at all and doesn't say much on its own. And when you voted you didn't say you had been feeling he was sketchy to you for a long time, you said you voted him for his "horrible reason to vote" Turin. * brackets are my inclusion to make it clearer.

Literally in a post like three up from your comment on this very page??? Yes, because yours looks like teammate distancing, imo and I have thought DPR sketchy for a long time.

Vote DPR. I would also be willing to vote Cass, but I think DPR's flip would give us more information.

Current reads. Much of this I have already said in my catch up posts. @Turin Turambar - As I explained in my last post, this is based off emotional investment more than gameplay. Hate it if you want, but that's where I'm at. If he flips scum somehow then I REALLLLLY don't know what I'm doing and I will understand all the heat I will likely receive. @DPR - Wolf, imo. I feel like he's misreping/twisting a lot of things, specifically when posts are directed toward him (thinking of my posts and Seph's here). I also don't understand his continued focus on putting me and Hallia together. His post above is at least the 4th time this game he's put us together. Like this sticks in my brain bad because Hallia and I have played very different games so far and it reeks of tying a townie to a wolf that's taken some heat. I haven't hated all his posts, but I have paid attention to people saying he can replicate his town game as scum. @Darthe - townread admittedly a lot of it based on old meta, but I don't feel like I'm playing any differently so why should I expect that he is? I don't see wolfdarthe playing as sloppy or giving Turin an easy out. I also like a lot of the questions he's posed to other people, and feel that's protown. This is also colored by my feel that Turin is town so lolme. @Cass - scum lean. Low contributor in terms of volume and then low content when she's here. I don't understand the random dicetown read and I don't remember her actually answering this? I also hate her vote as a pop in and implication that the vote had to be between Turin and Darthe. Further in the posts she has been here, she's left defense for DPR, although this point specifically hinges on DPR being scum. @Hallia - scum lean. Low contributor, no explanations, wolfy pop-ins and horrid vote. @Gudrean - mild town read. This is mostly off do I see new scum posting like this. Is it the best reason? No, but that's what I got. @Verbal32 - scum lean, just like cass low contributor in terms of volume and low content when he's here. Many of his posts don't have anything to do with moving the game along, imo, and they look like an attempt to look like he's here doing things but actually isn't doing anything. @seph - town read. I haven't liked everything he's said, but many of our reads are the same and he seems to be coming at the game the same way I am, which makes me feel good about him. He's also followed up on what he's said he would (so far) and that is, in general meta not person specific, to me a townie thing to do. @dicetosser1 - null atm because I liked/agreed with somethings that he said, but I didn't like others. I felt like his null list and reasons were meh and even though she has a scum lean for me, he left himself an easy out with his Hally read. I do like his town list though and reasons, hence null.

Wolfy pop in, imo. It does have a minor reason I guess, but I hate this vote. Reactionary off of one post without being caught up when there is still time to read up and decide. To me, it reeks of teammate distancing, but that it admittedly colored by my view of DPR. I do think this is a good follow up. Bold - I don't see it as a have to, but I do see how it would be beneficial for town who knows the theme. Another "hey y'all I'm here but not really going to say anything" post from Verb. This mostly feels like a repeat of what was said before. Not sure how I feel about the bold. I don't hate that he's not just jumping on a train, but at the same time, if Seph is in your top 2, why not put him up there? Why are you just going with the flow as is? I've seen trains form and run and hammer with like 2 hours to deadline so if you have someone you think is wolf, especially if you don't think those getting the votes are, why not start a new train? Putting dice's big post in a spoiler, since this post of mine will already be long enough. I agree with the town list and the frustration/vote with Turin is understandable and very dice, imo. But I don't like the null list because I feel like Verb has been sus even in his lack of activity. I also feel like DPR has been sketch, but I need to go back and look because atp I am worried I am tunneling on him because of our initial interaction. And it's an easy out to say "Hally better as a D2 read". So still null on dice :p. But like, no other comments about the game while she's here? I feel like it's sketchy to say "oh, not caught up but I saw this one post/vote and so I'm going to vote that person." Like even if you're busy, if you're going to stop by maybe at least go to profiles and read some of the posts/interactions that person has had before voting them? But what do I know lol. What about it did you love?? Despite some difference of opinion on Turin and Gud, I don't hate these two lists. I''m going to spoiler these posts too, because they've been triggering for some. I'm sorry Z, but being an empath, I just do not see a wolf making Turin's post. It reads to me like exceedingly frustrated town. Like, I've been there as town and that would be, imo, hella investment on a wolf. Do I agree with the moves he's made? For the most part no, but being someone who relies IRL on their ability to read others' emotions, it's hard for me to move past this. First bold is a misrep of Seph imo. He stated he had quotes for you and planned to get to you later. And he was, at least, peppering Gud with all kinds of questions. Underline, but why not argue things??? Isn't that part of the point? Second bold - are you okay? 😞 I agree with both of these. I also don't see wolfdarthe allowing this out for Turin, when it would be a pretty easy lynch right now. And yes, that is going off of 15yearold meta so definitely lolme if I am wrong. Unless they are on the same team, but I feel like that's unlikely because I have that town read on Turin. I hate this post. If you haven't read his post why are you responding?? I agree they are wolfy, but I hate this statement. Yep, I'm wondering too. I also like this list? Maybe I am just hopelessly bad at reading people this game lololol. I disagree with the Gud, dice, Hally and darthe reads, but I feel like I can understand his reasons. I will admit this is colored on the view that I think he is town. First bold - no. This is how I catch up and show my thought process for why I feel the way I feel about people. It's how I always have done. If you're too lazy to read them then :P. You could always put them in a spoiler when you're responding???? Underline - Bully for you? lol. I feel like I have commented at least a few times on why I feel your posts are coming at the game from a town angle. Do I need to do a deeper dive read through? Probably. Do I think you are the lynch of the day and I need to do that right now? No, that's for future days. As far as your town read being based on my early posts -- have you read any of thoughts I have put forward in my long messages? Surely there is more information in there that can help you with your read? I don't hate it. All good points.

Okay, I tried guys, I tried but it's just about 1am here and I have to be up in 5 hours and I'm falling asleep in between gathering quotes. I will be back in like 7 hours to actually finish and post reads and vote and all that. I should be around all day with maybe minor interruptions, but nothing major on my schedule.

Back and forth between Seph and DPR. Bold - good point and excellent advice. As for the rest of it, I read it differently 🙅‍♀️ and already stated how I'd seen it. We used to have a feature where we could see all the posts a specific person made in the thread. That was awesome. I feel meh about this post irt T/W. Like I can see how it would fit both sides. Even the sentence which is about my pondering of a Cass/DPR team. If she's W then it's advantageous of her to agree since I already said earlier that I don't see her and Cass on a team. Okay, but what about what else is going on in the thread?? Pretty sure I got it when I got there? I don't hate this, but I didn't get backpedaling? I don't hate the vote, but I do hate the bold. But you should care about dying, imo?? Like if you're town that's a townie we just lost?? Agreed. Did fake claims become the norm when I was gone? Why is it assumed there will be fake claims? Again, genuinely asking. But is WolfDarthe as messy as he has been? That's kinda more what I'm going on for my read. I don't remember him being like that. lolme if he is scum. Bold - Please explain, DPR. The rest does line up with what DPR said earlier. ....we have wildly different perspectives on the game. What. How is this remotely helpful to this game rn? I do think Turin is town, but this is a good point regardless. We've talked about him most of the day and that's likely to continue for future days unless there is a flip that just massively blows everything up. That being said, I don't want to lynch someone I feel is town because any loss of town is -ev to me.

I know I already posted in response to darthe, but as I came back to page 50 to continue, it struck me that this is the third time DPR has linked me and Hallia together in regards to leads. I don't feel like mine and Hallia's activity is AT all on par with each other in this thread so this is a weird linkage, especially to make more than once. I want to pull quotes from Hally and analyze but she's had what like maybe 15 extremely short posts? Maybe I'm too far in my own head, but like no one else has really questioned my activity/involvement and I've seen questions about Hally from others IIRC so why put us together as inactive? Cass has had less activity than me so why not link HER and Hally? I'm having trouble seeing how someone with your reads wouldn't look into Turin more rather be "not confident". If the town IC and one person that I think two wolves are voting for and one person I'm fine with is on a wagon, would that not be pretty convincing? At least convincing enough to want to read up on that person yourself? First bold - to be fair, I didn't take that from DPR's statement about Zander. I do think it's NAI though now that you pointed it out. Of course we're all looking at Zander. It's an easy "oh look guys, I'm totally town" statement. On one hand eh I guess I can see getting upset over someone calling you a wolf for your statement. On the other, he said possible, not that you definitely were. I am aware this is colored by the fact that I have a slight town read on Seph rn. Once again I agree with a lot of this, with the caveat that I'm pretty sure there is one (lately) active wolf. Bold - this would be a odd statement to say as wolf, imo.

dang it, I forgot to add my comment about Seph in that last post. Underlined, re: Seph, But what about all the rests of his posts, or his reads? I get that he said that and it is okay a scumtell for you, but what about the content of what was actually said? This sounds like you are just contributing *something* for the sake of contributing.

(omg, I'm on page 50, I see the end in sight 😶) Then why are you voting Cass at this time???? This reads townie to me? Why invite the scrutiny? Meh, I'm not sure I agree. It was a pop in vote, wasn't it? I will go check - prob tomorrow to be honest, I need to go to bed ASAP when I'm done catching up. (Only to have to catch up again tomorrow lol me). Maybe read that list again? I feel like this is town too? Like force DPR (anyone, actually, but DPR in this case) to state reads that we can dissect. Bold is a misrep and maybe even a flat out lie? I will go back and check, but Turin has been actively pushing back against people reading him as wolfy for a lot of the game. Re: darthe, DPR. Didn't you vote him earlier because you said he "showed his ass"? AND when you unvoted you didn't state anything regarding a change of mind on him, rather you said it was "while we sort this out" or something along those words. How does voting him fit in with "it's a little early to call" between wolf/town? Leaving this here to come back to. And you have no other comments? Wolfy. Re darthe, Verb - he's one of the most vocal people in the game so there's PLENTY to go on and this one thing is what you've focused on? That's weak sussing, imo.

real quick and then back to game play. Okay, where I left off... Right now I also think DPR is sketchy, so this feels like a protown question. As the thread has moved on to Turin and Zander going at each other, I also feel like it's protown to be bringing this back up? Based on a reread of their stuff, or just what you remembered seeing? Townie post, imo. Mostly because I agree with all of it. First bold - I get it, def. But, having your input is also helpful as the only 100% cleared player. Plus, your experience playing with everyone can be helpful lol. Why? I generally dislike votes when there's not a reason given. I want to know this too, because there were at least a few people sussing you at the time IIRC. Bold - Knowing his reputation, I'm not sure I wouldn't put this past DPR lol, but that's a tinfoil hat thing and I don't think it was staged. Ding ding ding ding! (Accurate) Do any of us really know what we're doing? 😆 It's all just gameplay, though, it's not personal even when we're "attacking" you or anyone else. I know that can be hard to remember though, especially if you feel like you've explained yourself well and people just take it in a direction you didn't expect. Somewhat hard to put into words? Do they seem like they trying to solve the game? Are they twisting what other people say? Their use of language, are they hedging, etc. Would their game play be good for a wolf team that is trying to stay in the game but has to hide, and yes, meta. It is nuanced for sure and practice generally makes better lol. I know you're a parent -- maybe think about it like these random folks online are trying to talk to your kids and you need to sus out whether they are regular people that get the okay or scary peeps that you need to protect your kids from. Bold - To me it comes down to a) how you defend yourself and b) do I see the defense as something that would be positive for the wolf team. To me everyone is town until they've done something to make me think they aren't. Innocent until proven guilty and all that I guess. Maybe it's just my positive outlook on life - we had to do these Clifton Strengths assessments at work to identify our top 10 strengths and my number one was positivity. Welcome to mafia lolololol. I get it, but I still dislike votes with provided reasons. I don't think so? Folks have discussed her being wolf. I didn't quote all the Turin/Z back and forth because I think Turin is town based on his hints and his double triple quadruple quintupling down on needing the "I'm town" statement. I don't see it being pro wolf, especially as it has obviously attracted much attention. To be fair, atp it's not pro town either because Z is so laser focused here.

Oops, meant to add to the bottom of that that I'm off to teach again. I'll be back later.

I know what yolo means, but what does "yolo a L town read" mean? Not game related, but I also love Maker's Mark :). Same here, might be nice to have Key on your side. I don't agree with it, but I feel like I can understand where he's coming from because I didn't like her list either. It's only since that I've come around. It is good follow through as he did mention earlier that he wanted to try and "clear" Gud if he could. I haven't played with her ever and I knew she was new. I don't like the focus on this post from DPR because he's had other sketchy posts. Not too bad a list, but I wouldn't have Hally so high or Gud so low. Then why are you saying before that you are YOLOing and then also way earlier shooting from the hip? I feel like this is at least mildly contradictory. Third bold, then first bold - irony considering this stuff happened before your unvote and Seph was asking about after. 😛 Second bold - I didn't hate the unvote, but if his post was that concerning to you, why unvote?? I like this post. First :p, outside of yesterday, I was here and doing stuff. Secondly, if it's being surpassed by others why is there a huge gap between me and others? Outside of that, I like most of this list. I don't agree on Turin, Hallia or Gud, and I don't feel as strongly about Seph, but I do agree he looks okay so far. I agree about dice being on the lower end of null, verb being null, wolf vibes from Cass and DPR. I like this question, but obv I'm biased. I think this line of questioning is good, because DPR's reasoning for me giving "forced" reads and then his follow up to my follow up were weak, which I did call him out on and a large part of why he feels sketchy to me.

Back between classes, so trudging on... @Gudrean - How are the bolded and underlined phrases any different? Sure, but if you're playing in game with flavor, aren't you interested in at least knowing something about it because it could be helpful??? Or maybe I'm just crazy lol. Why?? Connection between other players in terms of who they've interacted with and how much they've interacted with them and what they said is part of the game. So you aren't concerned with how little she's been here? Or why she's defending Verb and DPR, especially DPR? With this wrap up, I again think Gud is town and not great (yet) at hunting - maybe just on D1. Otherwise leaves her wide open for attack when someone does flip wolf and she's got all these sweet reasons for thinking they are town. Could she be a wolf capitalizing on being new? Sure. Maybe I'm just putting too much of how I play on her, but I don't see how this is good for a wolf. 🤷‍♀️ I don't like this. I know Z says he's good at reading Hally, but there is always a chance he's wrong. You should do your own reading and make your own decisions, imo. Sure, but don't you think it's odd of her to make it sound like it must be between just those two when we had well over a day before the vote at that point?

Did you not read up on the theme you signed up for?????? I feel like we were given a clue to this in our PMs, not that I'm trying to game the mod, just going off of what was in mine. I like the references back to DPR and Cass because they are sitting low for me atm, but, the "I need to really clear you if I can" has weird vibes to me. Like, obviously? Townie, or at least not on a team with them, imo. Easier to just off the cuff spout out one of the vote getters. Also forces her to look at (or be raked over the coals for not) DPR and Cass. Admittedly, this is colored by the fact that I think they are both sketchy. Bold - the worst reason not to vote for someone. Does new scum off this up on a platter, esp when Cass currently has a vote on her? Meaning, if she does get the full train and is lynched and turns up wolf, this immediately makes Gud super sus. Weak reason to sus, imo, but maybe that's cause I do rereads and that's how I play the game too. But why do you think this? Not true. I don't really like this exchange, but I can't put my finger on why? Like, it just feels bad man and I know that's not really that helpful. LOL, that's how I feel with this catch up. I see like at least 5 more pages since I started it. Okay, I have to eat something before I teach at 12:30. I'll be hit or miss for a few hours, but I'll pop in to continue this when I can. I promise to be fully caught up and giving my current thoughts before I go to bed tonight.

Very true. But to me it feels like a LOT of arguments/attention/people thinking he's wolfy. Like, Turin says wolfy things, yes, but does he dig in this much when wolf? To the point of making the only cleared person frustrated and wanting to vote him?? I'm genuinely asking, Z, because I don't remember his meta. I know I wouldn't want all that attention as wolf. This looks townie to me because Cass wasn't really being discussed and I am also skeptical of her pop-ins. I also think Turin/Darthe is T/T, but that is only based on how I feel about each of them separately. I will go back through when I'm done with catching up (if I ever can get caught up lol) and see if their back and forth way back when changes my mind. Fair points, but I think this is all NAI for DPR. From town angle, he's frustrated with Turin and feels it's wolfy for how he played. From wolf angle, he can see Z is already frustrated at Turin so why not jump in and try to see if he can get Z to lead a Turin lynch? Arguably every Advanced game could be started this way which would then likely lead to LD not ever being used, which would then cycle back around to not claiming it D1 and it being used again, rinse repeat 😄. Reads townie to me, off of vibes more than anything. 🤔 Technically I suppose you didn't, but it feels like you did.