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Elder_Haman

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Posts posted by Elder_Haman

    Posted

    As much as we'd all love it if no characters were sacrificed, it's clearly impossible. So, just for fun, what are your ideas for characters who could be combined. Here are three ideas:

     

    (1) Min + Hurin

    Hurin is needed only for his ability to track Padan Fain. But Min's viewings are flexible enough where the writers could substitute her. Bonus: the relationship between Min and Rand can develop on screen rather than being based on a single quick interaction.

     

    (2) Dena + Aludra

    Aludra is a low-key critical character, who sort of bounces around on the margins of the story. Giving her a relationship with Thom (maybe making them a performing team) gets her into the story in a less random way and makes her potentially more memorable when she pops up later on.

     

    (3) The Bornhalds

    The whole Dain/Geofram thing is unnecessary. A single Bornhald makes more sense for the tv series.

     

    What do y'all think?

    18 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

    What is going on here?  I don't understand how this level of thread-necromancy has become so common.  Are people just doing Google searches now that the TV show is reaching more mainstream levels of consciousness and not realizing they're replying to threads that are half a decade or more (or much more) old?

     

    I think that about sums it up. 

    18 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

    Moiraine's sudden change of direction, and the reasons for it, are one of the few plot elements that actually do become more relevant in the rest of the series. 

     

    I get what you're saying. But you can keep Moiraine's change of direction reasons as part of the story without making it the whole reason. My objections are more to how clunky it feels that the only reason to go to Fal Dara is because its on the way to somewhere that they don't know exactly how to get to. 

     

    My change gives them a reason to specifically go to Fal Dara. Moiraine can remain confident that they will find the eye, be aware of its significance, etc. and just be confident that they will find it as they battle through the blight toward Fal Dara.

     

    I'm also trying to get Min into the story and have an onscreen relationship with Rand that feels real. With a few tweaks, Min can replace Hurin which will allow her and Rand to bond and add some drama to the Selene/portal stone part...

    On 7/3/2020 at 4:41 PM, Thrasymachus said:

    Moiraine is explicit that no one knows why the Eye was created.  If it was to re-seal the Dark One's prison, why hide a seal in the bottom of it, where it wouldn't be revealed until after it was used up?  And she later questions whether it was intended for the use to which it was put, or for some other reason.

     

    The EotW is a good introduction to the characters, but it's almost wholly disconnected from the larger plot.  The Dark One's army at Tarwin's Gap exists only to raise the stakes for Moiraine and Lan, and to be destroyed by Rand.  Ishamael didn't want Rand to channel it, he was freaking out when Rand was channelling it.  And he certainly didn't want to be the one to kill the Dark One.  He wanted utter annihilation.

     

    I agree with the notion that you have to change the whole plot point regarding the Eye. For the tv series, the fact that Rand can channel should be a big enough reveal. Tarwin's Gap doesn't really have to happen.

     

    I would plot it slightly differently for tv:

    Rather than going to the Eye on the basis of dreams, rumors and Moiraine's intuition what if...

     

    Moiraine second guesses her plan to take everyone to Tar Valon after Shadar Logoth (because of Logain maybe). She really wants more clarity and would like to take the boys to see a girl she knows in Fal Dara who sees visions. When she finds Loial in Camelyn, she remembers the Ways and talks him into using them.

     

    Only the Waygate is located barely inside the blight and they have to fight their way out to get to Fal Dara. During that journey, they stumble on the Eye (because Ta'veren). There's a fight at the Eye. Rand channels consciously. They find the dragon banner, seal and horn.

     

    Then they ride into Fal Dara. Ah, safe at last. We meet Min. We meet Agelmar. They capture Fain. The season ends with Siuan arriving. Everyone is terrified Rand will be gentled. And Fain escapes with the Horn.

     

     

    Posted

    Lots of people see season one extending well into tGH. I don't see it - casting decisions, episode titles, and leaked set photos notwithstanding. And more importantly, I think that if the show is going to be the best that it can be, it needs to stick to Book 1 for season 1.

     

    I say "the best that it can be" because there is simply no way for a tv series - no matter how well done - to be a scene-for-scene duplication of the books. It's not possible and would also suck. But a truly great show will preserve Jordan's world building, main characters, and plot. It needs to be written to be an engaging, entertaining show for people who have not read the books. That, in turn, means that it has to be structured and paced for a television audience.

     

    Amazon doesn't want just another show. They are looking for Emmys and "Game of Thrones" type buzz. The source material can give it to them if executed correctly. Here are 5 reasons why sticking mostly to book one is the best choice:

     

    (1) BUYING TIME

    Special effects, makeup, costumes, set design. These things take time. Each time you add a location, these issues come into play. Jordan's world is vast. The various ways the One Power is utilized is going to require thousands of man hours of special effects work. Not to mention the careful planning required to make sure that the various production elements are flexible enough to accommodate the addition of multiple cultures, new fantasy elements, and power creep. 

     

    By sticking to book one, the producers limit the number of production elements. This will allow them to get these few elements just right and allowing the design team time to get the new elements right too. Think about it this way - would you rather rush ahead to the battle of Falme? Or would you rather have the special effects for that battle carefully developed and redeveloped over the course of a couple of years? Patience will pay huge dividends.

     

    (2) ACCESSIBILITY

    One of the problems with fantasy tv adaptations is that they aren't accessible to fans outside the genre. Game of Thrones succeeded by keeping the fantastic elements mostly to the sidelines. That's really not an option for the Wheel of Time. What is an option is introducing the fantasy elements slowly - gradually allowing viewers to get accustomed to the fantastic elements. Fortunately, in this regard the writers can simply follow Robert Jordan's lead.

     

    New viewers will begin in a familiar place a quaint village where everyone seems pretty normal. They then get to learn about the "rules" of this new world alongside the Emond's Fielders as they flee from a supernatural attack. By sticking to Eye of the World, writers can allow viewers to grow in their knowledge of the world along with the main characters.

     

    (3) MORE CHARACTER - LESS EXPOSITION

    This is closely related to (2)...

     

    Characters are the key to good television. A gripping plot is good - necessary even. But without characters that viewers can invest in, a show simply can't be great. Sticking to Book One is the best vehicle for doing this, because it allows the writer to focus on really developing the Emond's Field five.

     

    As the group runs for their lives, viewers will get to learn who these people are and become connected with them. The characters know just as little about what's happening to them as the viewers do (think of "Walking Dead" or "Stranger Things"), so when the viewer encounters something foreign - like a Trolloc - the character is learning about it at the same time the viewer is. 

     

    But viewers also want to understand how the characters relate to one another, how they are different from one another, and where they are in conflict. The farther the writers try to push the plot, the less time there is for slow moments where the characters can interact with one another and the more time that must be devoted to exposition - explaining why things are happening instead of experiencing them.   

     

    (4) PLOT & PACING

    Eye of the World paces perfectly over 8 episodes as a horror/thriller. The first several episodes are simply about staying alive. First, as a group and then (after Shadar Logoth) separately. Then, when the group reunites in Camelyn it becomes about keeping Mat alive. It's simple and straightforward - not much thinking required about what is happening.

     

    That, in turn, allows for time to set up the mysteries, plots, and unanswered questions that will serve to keep people intrigued. Writers should want viewers asking questions: (Who is this Dragon guy? Is he good or bad? Is it Rand? or Mat? Or Perrin? What are Moiraine's motives? Is Nynaeve right to distrust her?) They should want viewers to be worried when they find out that Rand can channel. (He's going to go crazy! He's going to turn evil! He's going to be gentled!)

     

    If people who are new to the series aren't buzzing about these types of questions, the writers will have missed a huge opportunity...

     

    (5) NO NEED FOR SPEED

    Many people look at the sheer volume of the written work and assume that writers must do two books at a time to avoid a 13 or 14 season series. But that's just not true at all.

     

    First, the length of Jordan's prose is not a good indicator. Jordan is overly descriptive. What he takes 5 pages to describe exists instantly on screen. Jordan also spends a good amount of time inside characters heads, something that it will be up to the actors to depict. And there are numerous vignettes and side scenes that will undoubtedly be cut from a tv adaptation.

     

    More importantly though, the later books are much more easily condensed. Plot lines can be tightened to where Mat's time in Ebou Dar which takes place over the course of three books can easily be handled in two or three episodes. It is perfectly feasible to not go much beyond EotW in Season One and yet still complete the series in 7 or 8 seasons.

     

    Besides, what fan of the books wouldn't want Season 1 to end with Padan Fain escaping with the Horn?

     

    What do y'all think?

    Posted

    I'm brand new here and wanted to say hi.

    I've been reading the series since almost the beginning (EotW and tGH) were my only paperbacks, the rest were purchased in hardback on publication. I've listened to the excellent audiobooks a couple of times as well. 

     

    I'm very optimistic about the tv series and since the Coronavirus hit, I've been spending some of my new found free time have been working my way through the series again trying to predict how the show might play out. I'm looking forward to posting some of my theories and chatting with y'all about it.

    I've thought about this quite a bit, actually. I think they'll break the series down (roughly) this way:

     

    Season 1 = Book 1

    The season ends with Fain escaping with the Horn and Siuan's unlikely support of Rand.

     

    Season 2 = Book 2

    The season ends with the epic battle between the Seanchan and the Heroes of the Horn and Rand's fight in the sky.

     

    Season 3 = Books 3 & 4

    Rand takes the Stone in the middle of the season and proclaims himself. The season ends with Rand returning from Rhuidean and Perrin leading the battle of the Two Rivers.

     

    Season 4 = Books 5 & 6

    The season begins with Rand's battle with Couladin and ends at Dumai's Wells.

     

    Season 5 = Books 7-9

    The season starts at Dumai's Wells* but is focused more on Mat, Nynaeve and Elayne and ends with the Seanchan attack on Ebou Dar. Cliffhanger ending where Faile gets captured and we don't know whether Mat survived.

    * this is going to be a turning point where Rand becomes an antagonist as he loses his sanity following Dumai's Wells. In my vision, the show starts setting up Rand as a potential villain.

     

    Season 6 = Books 10 & 11

    Elayne takes the throne; Perrin rescues Faile; Mat marries Tuon. The season ends with the meeting between Rand and Tuon and with Egwene being captured.

     

    Seasons 7 & 8 = Books 12-14

    This could be broken over two seasons or done in one, depending on the popularity and profitability of the show. 

     

    I think the show will try to stick to the major plot points and the major character arcs. But because Jordan's tends to write a ton of internal monologue, I suspect that there won't be too many scenes that are lifted directly from the book.

     

    Hopefully the writers focus on creating scenes and dialogue that move the plot forward, but focus primarily on developing the characters and the relationships between them.