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Elder_Haman

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Posts posted by Elder_Haman

    Just now, divica said:

    Because one of the criticisms that is often discussed here is how men are portrayed and less developed in the show in regards to women?

    Because it is an example hy rand, mat and perrin are side characters in the show compared to some of the female characters?

    Okay. But is that bad? Is it somehow horrible that they have chosen to focus some of the female characters first?

    1 hour ago, divica said:

    Seriously?

    you are defending a show that transformed a perrin moment about accepting that he has powers and understanding them into a egwene moment. He didn't even get to tell moiraine that he had powers or have 1 scene trying to explain what his powers were. All that story as spent developing egwene's character. This is got s8 bad level of writing.

     

    In regards to rand. why show us now the scene of tam revealing he isn't his biological son? why not do it on the first ep and have rand grow during the season by accepting it? 

    This way they basically made the moment meaningless. After 1 entire season rand is completly bland because they don't care to give him a story besides giving him lines about how egwene is so great...

     

    And mat after ep 3 basically disapeared from the show. 

    So everything must happen all at once or at the same pace? Perrin’s character isn’t allowed to get more development in s2? 
     

    There’s a kernel of truth to some of the things you talk about, but it’s making mountains out of molehills. This is a very solid show, every bit as good as the Witcher. To paraphrase Dominik Hasek, It’s just a show, why you gotta be so mad?

    Just now, TheMountain said:

    I really don't think that the writers,  Rafe included, are as interested in Rand's arc as the other characters. He's been significantly nerfed and downplayed so far, I don't expect that to change all that much even now that the "whodunnit?" has been revealed.

    I think you're wrong. Everything I've seen so far is that the series is going to lean very hard into the question of whether the Dragon is a savior or destroyer. Rand's arc is going to be central to the show - just like it is in the books.

     

    On the other hand, be prepared to see Rand from the point of view of people who think he has gone insane. Be prepared for Rand to be credibly portrayed as evil (or at least trending that way). Think the character development that would have explained the Danerys fascist turn. I truly believe Rafe intends to payoff Veins of Gold in a big way.

     It would also be far too derivative of GoT. Though I suppose it's a possibility.

    Here's my (very vague) guesses:

    • The rest of the group that was left behind at Fal Dara is unable to leave the city due to a surprise Trolloc attack.
    • We find out Fain's a darkfriend and is leading the Trollocs.
    • We get some slow Rand and Moiraine moments where she explains stuff about the prophecies.
    • Rand goes ham. "Kills" the "Dark One" and obliterates the Trollocs.
    • Fain captured.

    5 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

    My understanding of much of the pushback against show detractors has been that we aren't ignoring the books enough.

    I'm honestly not following. I think the argument is that lack of fidelity to the books is not the be-all, end-all metric by which to judge.

     

    6 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

    Critiquing via comparison is just another means of critique, no more valid or invalid than anything else. It's not the end all be all method of determining the show's quality, but it is a vector across which the show stands to be measured. 

    Agreed.

     

    7 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

    So people who like the show get to say, "Wasn't it cool when X thing from the book happened on screen" but detractors are largely dismissed for expressing the opposite sentiment. 

    Yeah but the two groups aren't in the same relative positions. It's easier to react to something than it is to react to nothing. And fans of the books who also like the show are obviously going to gush over the portions they like.

     

    I completely understand that people get mad that certain scenes from the books weren't in the show. I completely understand that people feel like certain changes are unnecessary and detract from the story. But telling you why they don't detract from my enjoyment isn't the same thing as dismissing you - it's just disagreeing with the opinion you've expressed.

     

    11 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

    This invitation for show detractors to disentangle their feelings about the show from their relationship to the original books is something that show lovers throw out frequently but largely don't adhere to themselves. 

    Because they like the things they are seeing that are also in the books? Isn't that ... expected? If you're generally enjoying the show and not bothered by the changes, there's no reason to disentangle any feelings. If you're having a hard time enjoying the show, disentangling feelings about the books is a useful tool to try to change the filter for your experience. It's a one way street.

    5 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

    And now we're supposed to just pretend like the original doesn't exist? Please. You don't get it both ways. You don't get to profit off the reputation of the original and then exclude it from the conversation surrounding the new version. 

    Who is trying to pretend that the original doesn't exist? Or trying to exclude it from the conversation? I don't understand.

    6 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

    I haven't read every page of this thread, so I may have missed it.  But is nobody even a little miffed at how accepting Rand is that he is the DR?  I mean, he only fought against that idea for the next two books until the Stone fell and he held Callandor.    Having him be this accepting basically nullifies his entire motivations for what he does for the next two books.  But whatever I guess.   

    I don't know that he's necessarily accepted it. He can't possibly have considered all the ramifications. I think he's resigned to it and believes that he has to sacrifice himself to keep his friends safe - which is on brand for Rand.

     

    As to the next two books - you do make a good point. The next two books are basically Rand coming to terms with his Dragonness. It will be interesting to see what they do in this regard. I think they'll lean more into Rand finding out (and coming to terms with) exactly what being the Dragon means. He'll probably refuse to take up the banner and decide that since he 'won' at the Eye, he's going to run off into obscurity. And then be manipulated to Falme or Tear where he will be forced to declare himself the Dragon in public. 

    5 minutes ago, flinn said:

     Marrying someone you dont really love because you were shot down by the girl you did want is low character. Let it happen to your sister or daughter and I bet you will hate the guy that took advantage of them because he was too much of a coward to face his feelings.

    But that isn't what we know. Perrin says he did love Laila. There is no indication Egwene ever 'shot him down'. He has never shared any feelings for Egwene. The only reason we have to believe that he has feelings for Egwene is because Machin Shin said so - and Machin Shin lies. 

    10 hours ago, themann1086 said:

    Ok, in order, Min's viewings and my thoughts. Don't think this needs spoilertext? Anyway:

    • Perrin: golden eyes, blood running running down his chin. Definitely wolf related, although the blood might be more symbolic of violence
    • Rand: holding a dark haired baby. Rand's gonna be a dad!
    • "The girls": white flame and a ring of gold. The Flame of Tar Valon (readers know), and my first thought was a crown but other's said Lan's ring and I like that better; either works. Could also be their Aes Sedai rings
    • All four: they're all linked; sparks of light trying to fill the shadows, and the shadows trying to swallow the sparks. The importance of all the Emond's Fielders working together to fight the Shadow. Pretty much word for word from the books
    • Moiraine: the Amrylin Seat in full regalia will be your downfall. Wording matters; this ain't about Siuan
    • Tam in her past in TV: snow and blood, a baby born on the slopes of Dragonmount, raised in a wooden house beside fields of sheep in a sleepy village between two rivers, that baby was something impossible. Self explanatory, this has happened now
    • Rainbows and carnivals and three beautiful women. Min acts like she's joking BUT! The three beautiful women are the ones in Rand's polycule romantically attached to him; the rainbows could be the ones he causes in the future when his mere presence starts warping the Pattern to counter the Dark One's touch; carnivals = valan luca confirmed!
    • "Do you see the Eye of the World?" "Wish I didn't. You seem like a decent person. Do I make it back? *silence*" Ok, so obviously Rand lives through this, but he's going to come back very changed and traumatized. That's my interpretation.

    Thoughts?

    Maybe he starts to experience LTT at the Eye? So it's not Rand that makes it back, it's Rand + LTT.

    1 hour ago, WheelofJuke said:

    But I found the "cheapening" of the slow burn of their feelings for each other in the books unfortunate; as the tension created from the uncertainty of whether or not they would be able to realize their love for each other brought much to their characters.  

    Are you arguing that the Nynaeve/Lan romance was a 'slow burn of feelings'? That somehow there was a build up to a "will they/won't they"? RJ was a great writer of many things - romance was not one of those things. The tv relationship feels 1000% more organic than the one from the books. And this from someone who is generally not thrilled with the changes to Lan.

    7 hours ago, Seraphine said:

    I do like the explanations that minimize/explain the love triangle (Perrin cares for Egwene but didn't fully understand love when he was younger, Nynaeve is misreading things, etc.). But part of what the Black Wind says to Perrin is that he loves another woman more than his wife. My impression of the Black Wind is that it feeds on one's insecurities/fears, so it seems like there's a part of Perrin that worries about this, which I don't like. I would have been much happier with the Black Wind feeding his fears about violence. While I suspect the love triangle issue not going to turn into a big thing (e.g. Rand and Perrin dueling for Egwene), I still don't get the purpose of having it be a thing at all.

    Here's where I think this is going: Perrin clearly blames himself for Laila's death. He loved her deeply and felt guilty about having feelings for anyone other than Laila. At the same time, he is also very fond of Egwene and so Machin Shin is using that to feed into that blame about Laila's death. "You don't love Laila enough" is the thing that is eating at him. In my opinion, it's a way to set up Faile. Perrin's early arc will be about him coming to terms with his guilt and being able to love again.

     

    The "love triangle" isn't a thing. Rand acknowledges this to Egwene. (And can we take a moment to reflect on how well Rand played the petulant jealousy thing - foreshadowing some coming behavior changes). But it's put out there as a thing to help the audience see how much Perrin is protective of Egwene but also struggles with the idea that he was somehow unfaithful to Laila. At least that's my take.

     

    10 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

    Fridge wife + Mat's family suggest to me that if he can try to enhance emotions with these Tropes (kill relative/disfunctional family) he will do that. I think he lacks subtlety in this regard. 

     

    Therefore, I will not be surprised if he chooses this path (which is somewhat GoT-esque as they are trying desperately to mimic GoT on the "shock" part)

    Okay, but those changes served a purpose. They gave backstory to characters who lacked one and are making an effort to dig into things that were present in the books. What purpose would Tam killing Tigraine serve?

    1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

    But knowing Rafe, it's more likely to be backstab while she drops Rand.

    What is the comparable scene you are referring to here? Where is the "just for shock value" change that establishes this as something we should expect from Rafe?