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Elder_Haman

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Posts posted by Elder_Haman

    3 hours ago, Mailman said:

    Rand getting Tam to EF and gaining the knowledge that Tam is not his father which has a massive influence on his character.

    I agree with this. On the other hand, it is such a blindingly obvious tipoff that Rand is the chosen one that I understand if they choose to do this via flashback (which Rafe has hinted is the plan). 

     

    3 hours ago, Mailman said:

    Training with Lan at the moment none of the 3 have any weapons training at all. Also vast reduction in the time spent with the three boys reducing the chemistry with them especially Rand.

    Okay, but this isn't really a moment. This is more of a process and it's something that can be moved around. I think you'll see this added toward the end of this season and/or the beginning of next. And the boys hadn't had very much training with Lan by this point. Only a few sessions on the road between Emond's Field and Shadar Logoth.

     

    3 hours ago, Mailman said:

    Bonding with Thom. Thom has no connection with anyone except Mat and Rand and that has been reduced to a few days hardly someone you would be desperate to reconnect with.

    Again, not a moment. And they aren't really "desperate to reconnect" with Thom. They just kind of happen to run into him again in Cairhien. People will be excited to see Thom again - which is about the same point we were in the books from an audience standpoint. From a character standpoint, I agree they haven't had much time with Thom. But I don't really think that ends up mattering much. They can develop those relationships later just as effectively.

     

    3 hours ago, Mailman said:

    Moiraine has been gutted and the EoTW is IMO where she is strongest in the entire series being responsible for driving the story more here than at any other point going forward. She goes from a driven and intelligent character that will stop at nothing to thwart the dark ones plans and protect the DR to a obtuse and injured character for most of the first 4 episodes and then lets the potential DR roam free hunted by the dark one without protection for a month while she rides to Tar Valon. She now has less than 3 episodes to interact with the main characters before seasons end having had minimal time with them to this point.

    I see this as a valid criticism. Moiraine's role has been diminished somewhat. But we've still got a ways to go in the season and they are about to reunite. There will be some great opportunities to see Moiraine at her best: in the Ways, in Fal Dara, at the Eye. 

     

    3 hours ago, Mailman said:

    Elyas and Hopper not introduced probably tied as the second most important characters in Perrins entire story arc.

    I'm not sure where I said it before, but it is clear that they're going slower with Perrin and the wolves. I think this is smart on their part because Perrin ends up repeating part of his arc (mastering the wolf dream) and becomes sort of redundant and disappointing at the end. So my guess is that we will see Elyas (maybe combined with another character like Hurin or Uno?) and Hopper more fully introduced in S2.

     

    3 hours ago, Hobo said:

    would also add Mordeth as a key character/moment(hopefully we will get this in a Fain flashback mayhap). Padan Fain meeting and melding with Mordeth is, id say, pretty crucial for several plot points He is the driving force behind stealing the horn in book 2, and in leading the WC into the Two Rivers iirc. 

    Mordeth is implied. Look at the scene closely and you'll see a shadow that leads Mat to the dagger. And I'm pretty sure we are getting another scene in Shadar Logoth where we find out about Fain.

    37 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    Is Rand not a wooden plank

    Not at all.

     

    38 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    Is Egwene not a mary sue?

    Again, not at all.

     

    38 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    they never understood the tissue that was holding it all together in the first place. They gutted one of the finest adventure stories ever told and stuffed it with lint.

    What is this tissue? What has been 'gutted'?

     

    37 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    Where else could they have done something like this, I wonder? 

    I suspect you're referring to the bond. But it's apples to oranges. The bond is a concept that applies to numerous characters across the series and has major impacts on at least 5 character storylines. So the concept of the bond had to be conveyed in a memorable way.

     

    Perrin, on the other hand, is a character who needs things to fill his screen time. Even in the books Perrin gets lost at times. And he essentially repeats his entire arc twice. Stretching Perrin's arc makes sense.

    1 hour ago, Yojimbo said:

    brooding, and mistrust, cynicism. and whining

    Can you point to an example of this? I don't recall any of the mains having any of these characteristics. I mean, I guess Perrin broods some, but that's totally on brand with his early character.

     

    1 hour ago, Yojimbo said:

    Rand and Egwene especially are more like who they become much later in the books.

    In what way?

    13 minutes ago, Deviations said:

    See but for me charm is a huge issue.  This series was charming.  The main characters were each charming in their own way.  Great strengths, somewhat endearing foibles.  I don't see that in this version.  Maybe that's why scenes were sacrificed.  Maybe charm wasn't important to the show runner.

    "Charm" is an inherently subjective thing.

    20 minutes ago, Deviations said:

    Nyn vs Moraine with the rest present at the Queen's Blessing.

    Here is another: Perrin meeting Elyas and the wolves - Perrin's interaction with the wolves so far is less than understandable for anyone who hasn't read the books

    Nyn vs. Moiraine with the rest present is still very possible. In fact, I'd say likely.

     

    I think they are teasing Perrin's wolf stuff but going to move the heavy lifting for the wolf dream (and the Elyas character) to Season 2. That will smooth his arc out. 

     

     

    2 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

    This is literally 2 conversations over the course of 2 seasons and a scene (probably following the aftermath at Falme) which could be included very, very organically. 

     

    "The bond between an Aes Sedai and Warder is deep. Lan feels what I feel, but it is so much more than that. When the bond is severed, a warder may go mad." 

     

    15 seconds? Squeeze that in a scene where Moiraine is explaining Aes Sedai stuff to Egwene (which she's already done in the show). The conversation with Lan and Nynaeve that I brought up would be about their relationship firstly. Why can't they be together? The Bond is then explained from Lan's perspective, but it's couched in this character moment. Hardly boring. Hardly an exposition dump. Hardly incompatible with TV. 

    Is that memorable though? Does it have a visceral impact? Will it make people understand that gravity of Alanna's bonding Rand? Or why it saves Birgitte? Or is that the type of thing that will fly over people's heads the first time and they will have to be reminded of repeatedly?

    17 minutes ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

    First viewing is Thursday evening after work. I pick up food on the way home and stream the show while chowing. I usually end up saying "Well, that's an interesting adaptation. I didn't see that coming."

     

    That evening, I call some friends, my sister and nephew, and discuss a bit, then I indulge in the many blogs and vlogs...

     

    On Friday/Saturday, I watch the ep a second time and I end up agitated and flummoxed, muttering cynically to myself throughout the rest of the day. 

     

    Ok, perhaps I should adopt a better approach? Not watch a second time?

     

    Lol. My process is similar but nearly opposite. 

    First view is Thursday after work. I spend the evening feeling unsettled about changes and ways that the adaptation isn't going the way I thought it would.

     

    Then on Friday or Saturday I watch it again and am able to appreciate the things I missed the first time.

    2 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

    The closest person that would know is Harriet, and it's not fair to put anything "on" her in terms of the show, how upset we are about certain things, or any of the rest. 

    Well said.

    I would also add that it's unfair to imply that she's lying or hiding her true feelings about the show when her public statements on the subject have been positive and full of praise for Rafe and his team.

    9 minutes ago, Deviations said:

     

     

    So, "charm" isn't really an effective answer as Rand has had ample opportunity to demonstrate his charm (as well as his stubbornness, temper, and tendency to go to high places when he needs to think). 

     

    Flute ... I mean, there are some character moments with Rand and his flute that I'll miss. But the flute is not at the core of his character. There are no character moments that are dependent on Rand's flute. So while sentimental, it's not absolutely necessary.

     

    Perrin needling Egwene? Entirely unnecessary.

     

    Elaida's foretelling told us that Rand was the Dragon. But since virtually the entire book up until that point was from Rand's POV, that wasn't exactly a surprise. Rand didn't even truly understand it at the time, so it didn't impact him in any fundamental way. So while the foretelling served Jordan's interest in Rand's narrative, it is unnecessary for his character development.

     

    The Whitecloak mentality is pretty solidly established at this point IMO. Valda is a crazy sadist among a group of dudes who seem pretty comfortable just bullying people. 

     

    9 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

    Are you saying that such a thing should have been done in the book?

    Of course. And it was. We heard exposition about the bond. Later, we got internal POVs from bonded characters.

     

    The problem is those things are either clunky on screen (exposition) or impossible to film (internal POV). They also often come at times that would otherwise not be on screen, so you have to find a way to shoehorn it into an existing scene or create a new scene to accommodate it.

     

     

     

    I'm sure you're tired of me referencing "Last Kingdom" but...

     

    Bernard Cornwell (author of the Saxon Stories - upon which the Last Kingdom tv show is based) glows about the television show. And this is despite the fact that the show is very, very, very different from the books. Characters are changed entirely. Entire plots are added. Important plot points are deleted. For example: (spoilers for Last Kingdom books and tv show)

     

    Spoiler

    Father Beocca is changed from a crippled hunchback into a good looking stout man.

    Ragnar's younger, sickly son is removed entirely despite his having an important relationship with Uthred.

    Brida is aged down, and made Uthred's peer. She is given a far more prominent role in his life in the tv show.

    Uthred's family relationship with the King of Mercia is removed entirely from the television show and Uthred's cousin is aged down and made largely irrelevant to Uthred's character.

    Leofric is changed from a sailor who commands the ship Uhtred is assigned to into a mentor and member of the king's household guard.

    Aethelwold is made into a prominent schemer and manipulator of events when he is not a major player in the books.

    Alfred is made relatable and understandable from a third party perspective in the show when he is only ever seen from Uthred's POV in the books.

    That's a very off-the-top-of-my-head list from just Season 1. And yet the author of the book seems to love the show. 

     

    I think the important question is whether the characters remain true to their inner motivations in the books. And whether the essential plot points for the main character(s) journey are met. Anything that's new should be created only to explore and advance things that are already in the books, develop character, or tie up loose ends.

     

    Idk. That's my $0.02 

    1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

    There was an interview with Harriet, where she talked about editing the Wheel of Time. I can't recall if it was one of the things she recorded with WoTV or if it was a written article... the gist of it was, there were things he wrote that he thought was perfect, that she harshly rejected.
    There were things he wrote and didn't like, that she loved and thought was perfect.

    It's in the recorded extras you can find connected to the show. It's a beautifully done interview. She seems like a lovely person.

    ·

    Edited by Elder_Haman

    19 minutes ago, Deviations said:

    No fever dream (yet - heavily implied will be done in a flashback)

    No learning the sword (yet - will undoubtedly happen by early S2)

    No questions about his possession of a heron mark sword (yet)

    No standing atop a ships mast and the hi-wire journey down (why does this matter?)
    No flute (yet - also, why does this matter?)

    No Else (why does this matter?)

    No Elayne (yet - we know she's coming in S2)

    No Elaida fortelling Rand's impact (would ruin the 'who is the Dragon' theme)

    No almost fight with a White Cloak (why does this matter?)

    See my notes.

    1 hour ago, Deviations said:

    There is no need to introduce fabricated scenes to help people understand a concept that isn't proportionately relevant until later in the story.

    Yes there absolutely is! You have to establish the stakes for the important concepts in the show. You can't just - all of a sudden in S3 - say to your audience, "oh and by the way this Warder Bond thing? It's a huge deal. It's going to essentially drive the entire ending of the season and be the key factor in three of our mains plotlines." That would feel contrived and cheesy.

     

    1 hour ago, Deviations said:

    Use the story's scenes to do that as they were originally written.

    But you really can't. Because EotW is written almost exclusively from Rand's POV. You can't have characters just disappear for episodes on end. You can't just introduce key concepts through exposition of Rand's thoughts, the way the book does. You can't have major things like the Trolloc attack on Emond's Field happen off-screen - it doesn't have any impact that way.

     

    I didn't love the Stepin arc. I thought it was a little drawn out and the two funeral framing of the episode was trying too hard. But it did an effective job of demonstrating the depth of the bond and what it does to warders. The scene was memorable. It made an impression. Now we see where it goes. Our heroes are about to be back on course - together and headed into the Ways.

     

    I'd ask you this: what key book moment have we missed? I can think of only two so far:  Perrin did not kill a Whitecloak (at least he hasn't yet), and Rand did not fall into the palace Garden. Otherwise, the main beats of EotW are all present in the tv show. 

    I'm a little baffled that they didn't start the series where I would have - a slow scene where young Moiraine and young Siuan hear Gitara's prophecy. That would have been the perfect framing device for the question of "who is the Dragon". It would have been the obvious beginning to Moiraine's quest. And it would have fit perfectly.

     

    I would have happily sacrificed a bit of the Winternight attack for the prophecy as the cold open.

     

    I disagree with using the prologue. It's a little confusing the first time. And I think it can have a far more visceral impact later in a tv series once you begin to understand the connection between LTT and Rand.