notpropaganda73

That's interesting, I didn't realise the writers' strike had impacted on S3, I thought it was S2 that was majorly impacted.

That's awesome, I love the Scouse accent as well

I thought this was a nod to the books and when Lews Therin would take control, or Rand would do something without realising it. Ask him in the next episode if he could consciously do exactly what he had just done, and I doubt he would be able to. I'd like to reiterate I liked the vast majority of this episode, there was a lot to get through and the Cauthons Healing really annoyed me, but for the most part I think it was good. A lot of things I think are really coming back to the issue the show has had from the start - not enough time. Another 2 episodes each season would really be a sweet spot for adaptation purposes in my opinion.

Honestly, I was expecting Verin to show up as a Deus ex machina moment to Heal Alanna, because I knew she had to be Healed. But this was much more annoying.

Anyway, in spite of my clear annoyance at the Cauthons Healing, I enjoyed this episode 😅 First, Tanchico. Really great, I wasn't sure in certain scenes but I think Thom coming back sealed it for me, Elayne singing as well! I really wish though when things quietened a little bit that she whispered to Thom something like "Have we met before??" and then he joins in with the shouts for her to sing again to avoid the question or something. Just a little nod on top of what he had said about Morgase's court. Moggy is fantastic, I've felt she has not been used enough so far in terms of interacting with other characters, but this scene with Elayne and Nynaeve was really brilliant, the actress is so good. I kept waiting for Nynaeve to resist and it was great when it happened as well. I hope they let that breathe a little bit in terms of a rivalry. One thing that annoyed me with the Black sisters though - both Nyomi and Ispan said Forsaken rather than Chosen. I know that Darkfriends in the books would sometimes do this, as they maybe weren't "true believers". But for Moghedien especially not to react to "one of the Forsaken" is a small character beat I just feel wouldn't wash in reality. It could have even been something she said as she kills Ispan - "We are Chosen". It's small, but for me it would add to the show if they hit those small moments. In the Two Rivers, I loved the Perrin and Faile scene and dialogue, but like others I wish the show held back on them kissing. I think a slow burn would have worked way better for those characters to be frank, especially considering Perrin was just talking about his wife. I am not so sure on the Wise Ones and training Egwene at the moment. We just have a lot of the Wise Ones telling Egwene what to do. To me, they should be showing her. Why haven't we seen a cocky Egwene being slapped down a peg or two by the Wise Ones in the Dream? Just one scene like that would show how she has to grow, and show the Wise Ones power. For me, they started out strong as characters but the past two episodes feel quite sidelined and lacking agency. I understand too that they don't have much time, but I would like a scene with Rand and Rhuarc and the Wise Ones since Rhuidean. Regardless, no matter how I feel generally about the love triangle and Egwene - Rand - Lanfear, the break-up scene was excellently done. I was also thinking while watching the scene that for what is to come (hopefully), this sort of personal break between them, and Egwene's "Don't lie to me Rand", as if she didn't fully believe he didn't know, it gives that extra personal dimension to them being at loggerheads further down the line and whether Egwene can really trust Rand, never mind the Dragon Reborn. So I thought it was really good - I just hated Sammael's entrance haha, it was so hokey! But, again, Aviendha channeling: good. Rand's show of Power - great! And that scene from the books was done as well as I thought they could for the show - a beat-for-beat recreation of the book would be too far for me. I thought they hit the write note and got the seriousness of it across really well. Like I briefly mentioned too, I really liked Alanna teaching the girls how to embrace the Source. I thought it contrasted really well with Rand's description from his POV. I also liked him saying that the Aes Sedai don't know everything - but I don't think he does either, so I wouldn't think the show is going down the route of "it's all the same Power", I wonder if they are more going for the idea that Rand will be tempted by the True Power (or at least, Lanfear will try). While I'm delighted to finally get a distinction between saidin and saidar, it feels so silly to me to this day that they didn't make this small distinction in S1, E8, when Moiraine and Rand are going to the Eye. One line all the way back then would have set it up more, but regardless, we have it now I suppose. I am assuming Sammael is now going to be Rand's teacher. This makes me doubt whether Asmodean is actually in the show, and makes room again for Demandred... although the guitar-playing Forsaken figureine in S1 still makes me thinks surely it's Asmo!

She was already being defeated by the Whitecloaks because Maksim wasn't there. You can show that without having her on death's door at the end of it. It's easy to show that they had the upper hand and if he doesn't arrive when he does, she absolutely would have died. But again, they went OTT.

I know we will just not agree on this and I don't know if I have the energy for an endless back and forth - but the show has removed any stakes so long as there are people around who can Heal. Now, the show has put forth the idea that you don't even need to be trained in channeling to be able to Heal, you just need to be able to channel and know how to embrace the Source. Don't worry if you're stabbed 100 times and a thousand arrows to every artery, it's ok, a child channeler is nearby! The Whitecloaks threat has been extremely well established at this point, all the way back to their very first introduction we saw how dangerous they are to Aes Sedai, we did not need to see Alanna hit with a million arrows to re-emphasise that point. Honestly, less is absolutely more in this case.

My issue with the whole thing is just writing decisions and Healing in general in the show. Alanna needed to be Healed - no doubt about that. But she needed to be Healed because the writers' made that decision. There was absolutely zero need for her to have been riddled with so many arrows in her fight with the Whitecloaks. Have her be taken out with one, two, hell even three arrows, nasty enough for Maksim to come back and save her but not so bad that she's about to die. Have her back in the Two Rivers ok, but not in a great way, able to Heal Perrin a little, but needing to rest. Have her discover the two girls can channel, still have her teach them to embrace the Source (I loved that!), even have her teach them a very basic Healing weave so that they can fix up her wound enough that she's back on her feet, but not in great shape! Perfect! But no, the show had to go OTT with how badly she was injured and again just over use Healing and the level of training needed for what should be an incredibly complex weave. And no doubt Alanna will be up and at them and in full fighting condition for the Battle next episode. The show again and again fails with this. On the one hand there are absolutely zero stakes, and on the other the stakes are so high that we have Rand trying to resurrect a little girl all the while people watch him worried if the madness has him. The show is inconsistent with the seriousness of these moments scene to scene, it's really taking me out of it and is so frustrating.

I have a theory that I don't think I've seen anywhere, regarding Tanchico and this season -

It is Leane who mentions the Grey Man. You don’t see who is talking, the camera shot is from above as Siuan heals Elaida, but it’s clearly Leane’s voice

I would need to rewatch the S1e8 cold open. It wasn't my impression on first watch that there was no urgency, but it has been a long time and I have not rewatched that episode (for obvious reasons). I remember at the time thinking the cold open was easily the best thing about the episode, so maybe I didn't pick up on wider implications in the scene. Finally got my rewatch of episode 4: - Flame and the Void, FINALLY. Rand talking about his father, FINALLY. Lan and Rand bonding, FINALLY. I am happy to see these things but really feel we could have had a scene like this all the way back in Season 1, honestly. If you lifted this scene and put it back to before Shadar Logoth, we would have gained a lot in my view. But glad to have finally gotten it now. - I liked the Aviendha and Lan "fight". I thought Lan was being playful to be honest, and I felt like it showed the Aiel respect him more than other wetlanders (likely any other wetlander). It was also a nice contrast with Aviendha having fun and then immediately having to break her spears. My only criticism of this scene is I don't think there was any set up for Aviendha becoming a Wise One. Even one or two lines of dialogue in previous episodes indicating she was avoiding Wise Ones or something would have set it up a little better for me. - I really loved the introduction of Sevanna and Couladin, I think the actor for Couladin is great on the limited amount we've seen him. The reveal of Bair being able to channel was well done (I think there can be no doubt now the show is not following book lore in terms of women sensing one another's abilities) and the info being conveyed by the Aiel in terms of Rhuidean etc., is all really well handled. I love the spears being left and the indicator that these are the Aiel who did not return and take their weapons back. Also Moiraine with the knives was a nice nod to Mat! - Moiraine and Rand under Avendesora and the small lore-dump about the Aiel War and "some old debt" or however Moiraine phrased it was a nice nod to the vision from the books that we did not have time for in the episode. I thought it was a good choice to include a flashback to Rand's father - it's frustrating he was unveiled but as many have noted I think this is just a function of the visual medium. Directors' and actors' and actors' agents want the faces to be visible. It's extremely annoying from a lore and faithfulness point of view, especially when they explain in the Lewin flashback where the veil has come from, but in general I get it. - I have already spoken about the Lewin scene, it is easily the highlight of the episode for me and that final "hide your face stranger" was absolutely heartbreaking. My partner was in tears watching this scene and has no knowledge of the books so I think the show deserves huge kudos for getting the emotional weight of this across. - The one flashback I did not particularly like, or felt it missed the mark compared to the others, was Latra and the Oath. There were cool visuals in this scene of the Breaking. But I felt there could have at least been a reference to the famous scene of the Aiel singing arm-in-arm to a male channeller to try and cure his madness. This would have tied nicely with the Tuatha'an against the Whitecloaks in S1. This sort of small detail has been missing a lot for me throughout the series and just keeps it at "generally good, not great". - The Bore! Mierin Sedai! The Song! A close 2nd to the Lewin scene for me. The Bore was incredible, this rip in reality, it really hammers home that this isn't witches and wizards and Dark Lords, but something cosmic. - On Moiraine... I have a few quibbles. I found the scene of her finding Sarkonnen a bit clunky/forced, but it serves it's purpose I suppose. The rings looked awesome. But I think I would have preferred one or two more "in depth" scenes of these possible futures, with the "turning" scenes ending her second vision maybe. I felt like these possible futures just went by a little too fast. I understand that Moiraine sees a thousand possible futures and all the rest, but maybe just one more detailed scene for us to sit with, I would have enjoyed. But obviously this is all more than we saw in the books (I think?) which is great too. - I liked Rand staying for Moiraine. Carrying her out as well, it was all great visuals and I liked that they made the decision to skip the dialogue at the end of the episode. We'd all just been through something big, it was good to sit with it in a bit of a silence! Overall, a great achievement for everyone involved in the episode. Like I mentioned, I feel like the rest of the series has been too inconsistent to really elevate this to an all-timer, but the more I sit with it the more and more I really love this episode. They did a great job of adapting my favourite sequence of chapters in all of fantasy.

oh I totally agree on that haha, and I think the show did a very good job with Nynaeve and Lan for example

this is also fair, maybe this representation is much more realistic 😅

it's one thing not adhering to logic, it's another to seemingly disregard all of those things with no turmoil about it. He seems to have not struggled at all with who Lanfear really is and only wishing about who she once was and could be again. But, I'm hoping there will be some payoff there.

No doubt my book biases are hard to suppress at times, but for me I don't really believe that he is in love with her. Maybe that's book knowledge seeping through but there is something about their scenes that just don't seem real or genuine in terms of love or anything like it. The only time I felt Lanfear was being authentic on screen was the Mierin flashback. Every other scene feels manipulative, and I think what is frustrating me is Rand feels much too naive around her. Even giving Rand some grace for falling in love with Selene etc., he knows who she is now and what she is capable of, he knows the stories and what she has done even in Cairhien when he baited her into rescuing him. He knows from his Rhuidean visions what she did in releasing the Dark One. But he doesn't seem to account for that when talking to her in his dreams. Maybe he is but it's not coming across to me. And maybe this finally coming to a head with Egwene will mean things are said and are out in the open a bit more and it might pay off a little. But as it stands it's just frustrating for me 😅