notpropaganda73

Merging those things make sense for television. I was a little worried they would merge Machin Shin and Mashadar as they are sort of similar "entities", and I could see it being a note from the studio that they are repetitive (even though we all know from the lore they are very much not the same). But bubbles of evil/Dreamshards is the sort of merging I can get behind and definitely adds something to the show in that they get a danger across for a TV audience without confusing things too much I think But I agree on the DO, I am hopeful for some indication of the DO's touch on the world in S3 because as enjoyable as the Forsaken have been so far, they are not the big bad!

So I enjoyed the episode for the most part. I didn't like it as much as some of the reactions I'm seeing - but I am really glad that so many have enjoyed it and that there seems to be such a buzz about it after one showing via the fan event! I think part of my issues with this opener really stem from the first 2 seasons and not having done enough work on certain characters, so some things feel a little rushed to me here. I am still worried in general for how the season will feel, will it be as jam packed as this? They have so much that they want to get through. I am just a bit apprehensive for how it will all land. But on the episode itself, first the things I loved: - Rand reading prophecies, with Loial! I wish we had one more scene like this before now. - Rand and the Maidens, Rand and the Aiel, deciding to go to the Waste etc., Rhuidean mention and Maiden handtalk! - More Rand in general! I'm starting to see Rand as a character in this episode, finally! - Egwene's trauma from the a'dam manifesting as it does in the show - I think this is a really interesting change and dynamic for her relationship with Rand that they have set up within the show. I don't like the love/relationship angle for Rand and Egwene generally but for the choice they have made for the show, I think this is a really interesting layer to that - The bubbles of evil! I actually loved that Lanfear was manipulating that, and her reaction to the Grey Man. There are a couple of elements to it that I liked, maybe some other book readers can verify but I am nearly sure there was a time in the books where Lanfear didn't know about another Forsaken meddling? Her reaction to realising that Moggy was involved felt like a callback to the books for me, if not specifically to Moggy meddling, then someone - that she was blindsided by it a little. - I also quite like that Moiraine and Lanfear "worked together". It felt very scheming to me, I don't know, maybe it's anathema for book-Moiraine but something about it worked on the show. Maybe it's because you have such brilliant actors in Rosamund Pike and Natasha O'Keefe in scene together that made me love it! - Rand and the mirrors was so good, kudos to the creators here, just loved everything about that scene. - I actually really like that Moghedien creates the Grey Man. I always felt it was an underutilised Shadowspawn, and I think because of the nature of it, it would almost be too easy in the books for the Dark One to just send loads of Grey Men to try and achieve their goals. At least with this limitation that only one of the Forsaken can create them, it makes a little more sense that it's a limited weapon. It also just adds to her as a character for the show, creep central! - Elayne is absolutely perfectly cast. I can't wait to see more of her as the season progresses. - Mat with the cards was a nice touch, I liked it and I like his motivation for staying in TV - loyalty to Nynaeve. Feels very like Book Mat to me. - In fact, I think there were a lot of small nods to the books in this episode which were really nicely done - Finally, I really like that there isn't a huge amount of discord between the EF5 at this point. I like that Perrin is going home and Rand knew before he said, and encourages him to do so. I like that they are still all friends here, that nobody is outright afraid of Rand as things stand. It feels more true to a lifelong friendship to me. Now, what I disliked... - I do think the show has a little bit of a problem with Healing. Yes, it's a fantasy show, yes there is magic and monsters and otherworldly feats etc. But I just do not believe the show when someone is stabbed through the chest with two swords, and gets up within a minute to fight some more. I do not believe the show when someone is hit with an axe to the gut, and stands up and keeps struggling along. I do not believe the show when a Shadow-made assassin stabs someone without any armour multiple times in the gut and chest, and they are up and alive in the next scene seemingly fine. It completely breaks any immersion for me, honestly. My partner is not a book reader and literally laughed when Liandrin was stabbed by the warders. And if we are to believe these moments and take them as they are, that Healing really can save people in this way - why should we care when anyone gets stabbed, ever? So long as there is someone capable of Healing nearby, no problem, let the Grey Man stab Rand in the heart 100 times! - I don't really like how they were all walking around Tar Valon, and as someone mentioned that Aiel are walking around in full Aiel dress etc. I know that the book norms have not been established with Tar Valon in the same way, but it felt wrong to me. The whole fear of the Aiel in the Wetlands from the books doesn't seem to hold true here. - Egwene's Accepted test... I wanted more and I hope to see more as the season progresses. Whether that is in her Dreamwalking or flashbacks, but it felt too fast for me. This sort of goes back to the start of my post, that rushed feeling. To me, Egwene's Accepted test deserves as much time as Nynaeve's got in S2. For the themes of the show and where she is going as a character, in fact perhaps she deserved more time than Nynaeve's. If that is all we get of it, I will be disappointed. - The action in general didn't really work for me in that cold open. I appreciate that many really enjoyed it but there's something about some of the slow-mo shots that I don't find engaging. But as a counter point, my partner was blown away by the amount of Black Ajah. She is constantly surprised when a Darkfriend reveal happens, it's great! I hope that doesn't come across as too whiny or critical, I did enjoy the episode and am excited for the next two to drop! I am definitely forgetting things from the episode too.

I think that would be enough, as long as the scenes have the punch required. They've shown an ability to get depth across in a short scene or two already, the Way of the Leaf was explained very well in S1 without much time spent on it for example. So it's definitely doable. I just hope we get a couple of scenes of Aiel and Tuatha'an interacting in the current time before we get to Rhuidean.

that's absolutely fair, I was very grump yesterday and seeing that post set me off a little 😅 oh I've no doubt Amazon are doing that, I know Daniel Greene talked about it after S1 aired and how they weren't happy that he wasn't lavishly praising the show or something along those lines. I think I just don't take creator content all that seriously for the most part - I just get annoyed when some critics of the show tell me I can't possibly be a true fan of WoT if I enjoy aspects of it or dare to try and talk or think about choices made. It's exhausting to see so much criticism of the show that stems from an assumption that Rafe and the creative team are making changes out of some sinister motivation to destroy RJ's work. like I say, I was grumpy making that post!

Something else I hope to see in S3 is more of the Tinkers. I personally think Rhuidean might not be as impactful if we do not have more time with the Tinkers as well as the Aiel (and their current day relationship with one another).

My post was not directed at you. It was directed at this comment: "There are thousands or even more posts about TSR being so bad that the writers of the show have to correct the countless faults of the novel and improve upon Jordan's abysmal planning and execution..." There are hundreds of reasons to dislike the show legitimately and with fair criticisms. Even if I don't agree with some of those criticisms, I can usually tell when the person is genuine versus the quote above. Hell, I don't even know if I would class myself as liking the show at this point (but am cautiously optimistic for S3). Unfortunately there are an awful lot of bad faith critics of the show who frankly, I can't believe have the energy to constantly invent new ways to hate Rafe Judkins.

Some of those who hate the show will invent as many ways as possible to further hate the show, and also hate on those who dare to give the show any credit, and insult those people as not real fans, because only they know what the books are truly about, what RJ would truly have wanted, and anyone who does not conform to their worldview is some woke Amazon shill whose sole mission in life is to destroy the books. They see ghosts and enemies everywhere, even in their dreams, and bring those imagined enemies with them in every discussion about WoT.

I really need to see Rand struggle with his identity. It's been my biggest complaint with the show so far. How little thought he seems to have spent on Tam. The burning up of Tam's sword at the end of S2. How often has he mentioned his father since leaving the Two Rivers? I am hopeful in that regard because I know we are finally going to get some Lan and Rand with the sword. And being with the Aiel surely talk of his mother will come up. But nothing in S2 says to me that Rand has struggled with a) who he is and b) possibly being the Dragon. He's mostly just struggled with Egwene and Lanfear. A "does he love her" thrust of the story doesn't really interest me from a viewer's perspective and I think really misses why Rand is who he is in the books. There have been flashes of book-Rand in the show so far, but I mean literally a couple of lines of dialogue across the two seasons. I really need more to be honest. Separate from Rand, I would like this season to finally clear up the saidin/saidar stuff, and what the modern day Aes Sedai actually know in relation to the Power in the show. I know there has been a lot of theorising that the show Aes Sedai are a lot less certain in their knowledge than book Aes Sedai, in relation to prophecies and history and everything that was lost since the Breaking. That could definitely work, but we need to see what they actually have lost - with more Forsaken on the board now, there's really no excuse in that regard. If they obfuscate yet again on saidin/saidar, I just don't understand what they are going for or why they even bothered mentioning saidin way back in the S1 Age of Legends cold open.

yes, that's a fair point - I suppose my main issue is the breaking of the fourth wall and that entire shtick really, it feels very unnatural to me and a bit cheesy

I think they are going big on S3 to try and get excitement up. There are holes in the scene without a doubt and some of the cuts / acting / dialogue doesn't work for me at all. But! It's a significant step above a lot of what we've seen so far in terms of action and the use of the Power. And they are clearly not afraid of a bit of gore and brutality, which makes me wonder how Dumai's Wells might look if we ever get that far...

I really dislike characters breaking the fourth wall unless it's a method of storytelling already established within a show. It came across as extremely hokey, unnatural and forced in my opinion. If they were concerned about Mat not being in the main trailer, then release a small 1-2 minute scene of him in a bar gloating about the Horn. They could even have made a joke about him calling himself the Hornblower only for whoever he's talking to to mock him for how that sounds. Never mind the clips of casually having the Horn out and about as it seemed. Just all felt off to me.

Hi everyone, it's been a while. My main worry for S3 is pacing and how they handle the multiple story threads they are showing. Rand in the Waste, Perrin in the Two Rivers, Mat in Tanchinco (I hated the tease they shared of him the other week). I am worried because I don't feel sufficient work has been done on these characters, specifically Rand, to carry a season of action and fast plot. Episodes, events, characters will need time to breathe a little bit, and I don't know if they have that time. They are introducing big big concepts in this season, and have fumbled big concepts in seasons past (saidin/saidar anyone?). They have shown a good ability to explain complex ideas from the world of WoT in concise ways (Wolfbrothers, the dream, the Wheel itself). Rhuidean is such a core part of the entire story, of Rand's character and who he becomes, why he chooses to do things later on etc. They have not done a good job with Rand in the first two seasons for me, not at all, so they have a lot of work in this season. And when you combine that with all of the other story elements - I am worried. But, the trailer excited me! So it has done it's job, I'll be watching on release day!