ArrylT

1 minute ago, ArrylT said:

 

In any case I've had discussions with people who found those storylines some of their favorites.  As always different people will watch a show for different reasons.    And as shown by the screen time count, it is not as if they suddenly only got 3-4min an episode.  The focus was not on them, but the EF5 still got a good amount of screen time.   The lowest percentage for Rand was 13%.   I'd be curious to know the percentages of characters in Witcher & GOT on a per episode basis.

 

I do know that Rand got more screen time in 8 episodes of WOT than any character from GOT got - despite 2 more episodes, according to the data from this reddit thread.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/2acke9/s4heres_a_breakdown_of_each_characters_screen/

 

This Youtube video has the screen time done differently - stop at 0.21 for S1 Ep10 - but same result in that no character from GOT got the same amount of screen time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOkWXE688w4

 

Rands screen time, as I have seen from 2 different sources has been listed consistently between 157-161 minutes.    Again this is 8 episodes of 60m vs. 10 episodes of 60m, and Rands screen time is higher than all GOT characters.

 

So basically we have a  WoTshow trying to bring the ensemble feel of something like GOT, and the rest of the WOT book series, and even that, with less episodes, and we still have a heavy amount of Rand, at least from my interpretation, and screen time amounts for the rest of the EF5 comparable to main actors on GOT (even Mat who is basically not in 2 episodes got 80+ min of screen tme - more than most GOT characters in S1). 

So Stepin in terms of screen time is basically on par with Khal Drogo - who was the 14th most shown character of GOT S1.   And like Khal Drogo in can be said that his arc sets up things for other characters going forward.  Much like Khal Drogo had a major effect on Daenarys.  Stepins screentime was 12th out of WoT Characters for S1.

Just now, ArrylT said:

 

Not exactly.

 

I recall a lot of the discussion after 4/5 /6 was centered around the lack of focus on the EF5 and the demand by a lot of people was "We want more Rand and/or other EF5 characters)".

 

Then we got Ep7, which is currently one of the most popular and highest rated episodes.  

 

Why?  Per chance because we got that demand satisfied.  But if it was not missing, would all of the non-book readers have felt the desire to reconnect with those characters.   If we do not know something is missing/lacking can we truly appreciate it?   The urgency came from us having our anticipation built up for several episodes and then a payout in the last 2 episodes (in terms of focus on the main story). 

 

But I know people will disagree.  I know many here will say yes, we wanted Rand front and centre for the entire season.  But there are plenty of Lan, Siuan & Moiraine fans and so forth that are quite fine with more screen time for their favorite characters.  The WoT has, as most I am sure well aware, been more of an ensemble series, that still had a good focus on Rand.  So far to me that has held true in the show as well even if it has not for others.

 

So in the end, a different kind of urgency but still one that seemed to have worked for a lot of people watching the show. 

In any case I've had discussions with people who found those storylines some of their favorites.  As always different people will watch a show for different reasons.    And as shown by the screen time count, it is not as if they suddenly only got 3-4min an episode.  The focus was not on them, but the EF5 still got a good amount of screen time.   The lowest percentage for Rand was 13%.   I'd be curious to know the percentages of characters in Witcher & GOT on a per episode basis.

I do know that Rand got more screen time in 8 episodes of WOT than any character from GOT got - despite 2 more episodes, according to the data from this reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/2acke9/s4heres_a_breakdown_of_each_characters_screen/

This Youtube video has the screen time done differently - stop at 0.21 for S1 Ep10 - but same result in that no character from GOT got the same amount of screen time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOkWXE688w4

Rands screen time, as I have seen from 2 different sources has been listed consistently between 157-161 minutes.    Again this is 8 episodes of 60m vs. 10 episodes of 60m, and Rands screen time is higher than all GOT characters.

So basically we have a  WoTshow trying to bring the ensemble feel of something like GOT, and the rest of the WOT book series, and even that, with less episodes, and we still have a heavy amount of Rand, at least from my interpretation, and screen time amounts for the rest of the EF5 comparable to main actors on GOT (even Mat who is basically not in 2 episodes got 80+ min of screen tme - more than most GOT characters in S1). 

On 1/9/2022 at 8:50 AM, fra85uk said:

Yes she goes to Caemlyn and find them.

But since had to inject Stepin storyline and Siuan/Moiraine romance, we lost all the urgency of the main story.

Not exactly.

I recall a lot of the discussion after 4/5 /6 was centered around the lack of focus on the EF5 and the demand by a lot of people was "We want more Rand and/or other EF5 characters)".

Then we got Ep7, which is currently one of the most popular and highest rated episodes.  

Why?  Per chance because we got that demand satisfied.  But if it was not missing, would all of the non-book readers have felt the desire to reconnect with those characters.   If we do not know something is missing/lacking can we truly appreciate it?   The urgency came from us having our anticipation built up for several episodes and then a payout in the last 2 episodes (in terms of focus on the main story). 

But I know people will disagree.  I know many here will say yes, we wanted Rand front and centre for the entire season.  But there are plenty of Lan, Siuan & Moiraine fans and so forth that are quite fine with more screen time for their favorite characters.  The WoT has, as most I am sure well aware, been more of an ensemble series, that still had a good focus on Rand.  So far to me that has held true in the show as well even if it has not for others.

So in the end, a different kind of urgency but still one that seemed to have worked for a lot of people watching the show. 

13 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

So basically Grim Dark = everything must suck x1000

This explains why some people consider WoT GrimDark because to them diversity sucks x1000 

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

 

I have posted the screen time count a few times, you'll likely be able to find them in Ep 6, 7 & 8 threads, and they are on Reddit.   If you are unable to find it I'll be happy to repost it - just do not want to repeat the same stuff on multiple threads.  

I found a different person doing a different approach.   Anyways according to the data that they have collected, Men have been on the screen more than women in every single episode of S1 except Ep6.

Here is the overall total for the season:

 Male

Female

If that seems confusing - thats because that is the time combined.   If say Perrin and Mat are each on screen for 5min in the same scene in an episode, then that counts as 10min - 5 per each character.    So that is the total combined screen time of over 50 characters from main characters through to Tom Thane.   

For those interested you can review the data per episode here:

https://rationalnerd62.tumblr.com/post/671828424700116992/wheel-of-time-screentime-s1e8

6 hours ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

Sorry folks but I am going to redirect the conversation a bit.  Has anybody ever read the Witches of Karres?

It isn't exactly high fantasy but I loved it and so did a number of others.  It is sort of a cross between fantasy and sci-fi.   You get magic and spaceships.  What else do we need!  The author only wrote one novel but several others have taken his premise and written others.  This story could be a great adaptation as long has you have show writers who can keep telling a good story after the original is done.  I like to laugh and this book always makes me laugh.  

 

 

 

No apologies needed (for me) and thank you for sharing and bringing this to my attention. 

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Sorry, but that petition will not change anything. It will give people a few laughs for sure. Petitions should be written with an objective mindset. Not with whatever that was. Full of fabricated "facts" that do not even exist in the show and just basic whining that has no weight to it.

It will certainly be interesting to see if they get to the same # of signatures as the GOT petition (1.85m).  Interestingly enough that was less than 10% of the people who viewed the finale (when it premiered).   

On 1/8/2022 at 9:31 PM, fitzwell said:

 

• I would love to see a screen time count. 

I have posted the screen time count a few times, you'll likely be able to find them in Ep 6, 7 & 8 threads, and they are on Reddit.   If you are unable to find it I'll be happy to repost it - just do not want to repeat the same stuff on multiple threads.  

https://screenrant.com/wheel-of-time-best-hidden-details-easter-eggs/

I guess you can dislike screenrant but still like a screenrant article hehe

Although if you dislike the show and dislike screenrant this article wont change your mind.  

Reason 1 

Reason 2

https://www.thegamer.com/wheel-of-time-wrong/

Interesting article - basically my understanding is that he now feels like S1 of The Wheel of Time is an homage to LOTR.

2 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

 I am sad because I largely prefer WoT books to Witcher books/games.

And when I see Geralt being so badass, when i see the fight scenes, when i see the nice directing that Witcher is giving, when I see that not everything needs to be claustrophobic for budget reasons, I think:

why on earth WoT-show is not as good with a similar budget?

Imho Witcher deserves the higher ratings that it got from basically every rating site.

 

I personally find that 95% of the time I prefer the original source regardless of genre.   So Star Wars films over other Star Wars books/video games etc.  Final Fantasy video games over Final Fantasy movies/books. amd so forth. Having not read any Witcher books or played any Witcher games I cannot make that determination yet for that show.     

Anyways my comment is more on the cinematography, set design, costume design, sound design and all that.  And specifically when comparing to a specific criteria checklist for each show.   So far The Wheel of Time gets the edge.  ?

As per Lan vs. Geralt I've already somewhat shared my thoughts on them in fantasy adaptation thread.  I have no doubt people can & will have long debates on those 2 - much like there are debates on Han Solo vs. Indiana Jones or Harry Potter vs. Luke Skywalker and so forth.  ?  

Regardless, being sad, while currently disappointing (since obviously we would want everyone to enjoy the show), has the potential to allow you to change your mind down the road and make that choice.   I know  because I could not watch GOT after 3 episodes when I first tried to watch it.   I decided it was not for me, and I would not revisit until the book series was concluded.   Well still waiting for that to happen haha, and the pandemic hit, so I watched GOT and well 8 years later it turns out I enjoyed it - even the last seasons (although S8 GOT is way worse to me than WOT S1 in a variety of categories).   So perhaps down the road, coming from a different perspective, you'll have made a different decision.  

13 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I disagree with this - in Grimdark, it would be Rand who does that to replace Tam's Sword, not servants of the dark one

 

In Grimdark, neither Rand nor Carol would mourn having to euthanize crazy people.

 

Carridin's execution was by performed by villains. Not by the Edmond's Field Village Council.

 

Here's a hint - if characters are doing something for the right reasons, and not for their own power, aggrandizement, or benefit, it's probably not Grimdark.

Yes that is the sense I am getting when contrasting The Witcher to WoT right now.   Many of these decisions made, by the characters I have seen in the first couple of episodes, seem to be made not for the right reasons but more for personal satisfaction.     I'd say that using the D&D scale, right now Geralt is Lawful Neutral, and most characters are Evil Neutral, Lawful Evil, Chaotic Neutral/Good borderline or Chaotic Evil.     After Geralt, possibly the best character, in terms of making decisions for the right reasons is the Elf King Filavandrel.

Certainly not on the level as described in Warhammer - just that in terms of level of GrimDark, Witcher is several tiers darker.  

1 minute ago, fra85uk said:

Well, for me there is no comparison, i am sad to say it but Witcher is miles above Wot (imho of course).

 

That is what makes things great - the diversity of opinions.    The only bad part, for me, of your comment, is that you're sad to have to make that decision based on your criteria.   And technically that is not even really bad, and I have no wish to put words into your mouth, but it indicates you want to put WoT ahead of The Witcher.  Who knows, maybe after reviewing S2 and comparing it to S2 of The Witcher, you may find yourself altering your grade.   I will also say I am glad that plenty of people enjoy the Witcher - the more fantasy content out there the better!  

54 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Look at the Witcher to see how a high-budget good-looking fantasy series should be in 2021. 

Yes, so far I've been doing a comparison of the 2 shows and so far imo, after comparing 2 episodes of S1 Witcher to 2 episodes S1 Wheel of Time. the WoT show is getting a better value based on budget in terms of its look/sets/costuming/design/cinematography.   I will see if this will continue as I keep watching & comparing episode to episode.  Obviously we can all have different subjective takes on what a fantasy series should look like, but for me the Wheel of Time has the edge on looking better.  

heroic

emotion

Arie - 357
Sinister - 272

TheHumanTrashcan - 258

Liitha - 240

ArrylT - 60

Canukistani - 58

LZM-9

Lava - 7

Leland - 3

DojoToad - 2

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

 

Give what?  The Tarwin's Gap encounter?  For the slow burn for the main character.  Giving the Messiah every opportunity to show off at every chance would also make things more boring.  Which is part of the reason why Rand's appearances in the books declines precipitously except when he's not showing off. 

I am starting to think that Agelmar being listed as a Great Captain was a mistake.  

Having read EOTW again, and the beginning of TGH (just about to reach Cairhien) - I have not seen any actually evidence that Agelmar was currently being a great general.    I have no doubt that in the history of WOT that he was.  Apparently he led 29 000 soldiers against the Aiel during the Aiel War.

However, if one wanted to, there is actual evidence in those books that does suggest Agelmar was becoming incompetent, or at least overly concerned with his own reputation, within the first 2 books.

If someone really wanted to, they could easily dissect Agelmar as harshly as some of the characters have been torn apart on the forums.  Or better yet Rafe Judkins.    If everything is to be blamed on Rafe on the show then logically speaking all the stuff that happened at Fal Dara lies on Agelmars head.

Prison Break

Trolloc Attack

Horn stolen

2 main characters could have been killed (Egwene & Mat)

Arrow that may have killed Siuan Sanche

Orders given in his name that he did not give

Losing the battle at Tarwins Gap before Rands appearance.

Sister getting compulsed by Liandrin

Hardly screams the mark of a great leader.

Am I saying this should all fall on Agelmars head?  No.   But it is hard for me to see how everything to do with WoT being "awful" is Rafes fault if the same cannot be applied to other situations.   I mean in Agelmars defence that is how the Creator wrote him - more Flash than substance - a Great captain who does not actually do anything in the books worthy of the title*.  It is a shame Rafe does not get the same defence - because even a pandemic cannot stop people from judging him and finding fault.    But Agelmar is the great captain who can do no wrong. ?

The more I think about it, the more I think Agelmar comes off better in the show than in the books.  Don't get me wrong I like the character in the books, but at least the character in the show is honest & realistic.   

https://library.tarvalon.net/index.php?title=Agelmar_Jagad

* - Even the Companion guide has little to say about Agelmar.   Again not disputing he was considered (perception) to be a Great Captain - just that there is little evidence to show for it.  Most of the evidence is mroe for him being respectful & courteous (which apart for 1 brief moment he is in the show)  Simply one of those things we have to take on faith - so I have no problems with the shows portrayal, especially since I felt he was a decent role model.

2 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

It's quite possible that you're right.

 

But you (and others) are in the position of a food critic who has written off a meal in remembrance of Escoffier because the traditional 14 courses will have to be whittled down to 8, and the aspic used for some of the hors-d'oeuvres doesn't follow the Master's own recipe.

 

Most others who haven't even heard of Escoffier, legion though his fans are, will just be happy to go along with it as long as it doesn't taste wholly off.  And there's always the possibility a fantastic, authentic dish will appear at one point or another.

 

Now, after really getting into the meal, it turns out that both the deviations from the recipes and the taste become too much to bear, then everyone will likely go out for a cheeseburger.   But some of the critics on this forum (not necessarily yourself) seem to have decided that the meal was and would forever be awful the moment they took their very first bite (at least we're at the end of the first course now). And even more surprisingly, criticism for daring not to make choices that would have turned the dishes out to be different to both what Escoffier wanted and you expected.

I know who I am hiring to review all of the inns & restaurants in the Westlands now.  

On 1/5/2022 at 7:59 AM, Gothic Flame said:

Oh hell yes I am judging harshly.. This was the direction he wanted. The question I'd want answered is who stopped him from this idiocy.

The cognitive dissonance is real;

That is basically very similar to the rationale Brandon Sanderson gave to why he decided to finish the series.  ?

On 1/5/2022 at 9:02 AM, Gothic Flame said:

I concur.

There are quality shows doing more for less. The only show I'm aware of costing more is "Mandalorian" at a reported $15mil per episode. And it certainly looks like money well spent.

For those curious I've posted an article listing 16+ tv shows with 10 million per episode budgets on the news articles thread.