Mirefox

I liked seeing Rand training and explaining the flame and the void. They need to drop the “I look like them [Aiel]” thing, though. Aside from the way they dress, the Aiel are completely heterogenous in this show, so why continue to write lines about their distinct looks? I don’t care if that’s how they wanted to cast it, but then it makes comments about how Rand looks come across as poorly written.

Yes, there is some subjectivity to it. My response was to a claim that something is an adaptation no matter how far removed it is from the source material. For what it’s worth, sometimes when my firm is dealing with infringement suits we do have to objectify changes, which can be interesting because you sometimes have to deconstruct music or stories into smaller elements for comparison purposes. That can be an undertaking, though, and helps when you have the original creator’s input.

Holy crap, your high school creative writing teacher said it? It must be unassailable gospel, then.

No, but there is a spectrum among which the derivative work moves from an adaptation into a new work build off the framework of the original and probably benefiting from its IP. The more the derivative creator overwrites intrinsic themes and tones to insert his or her own, the further away from “adaptation” that work becomes.

Because it shows that at least some of the intent isn’t merely adapting the book to a visual medium, which would of course have necessary changes, but that there was an intent to change themes, ideas, characters, etc. to something that the show creatives wanted them to be rather than what Jordan intended them to be.

You seem to be confused between adaptations and archetypes/inspiration. And The Lion King has plenty of detailed development history that clearly shows the origins and evolution of the story independent of Hamlet. Star Wars was inspired by Arthurian Legend and also Kurosawa and just the general Hero’s Journey archetype. It also isn’t an adaptation. Words have meaning; “adaptation” has meaning; it isn’t an arbitrary limitation, but a specific definition.

This is nonsense. An adaptation is making changes or alterations to change one medium into another, not an umbrella term that excuses unlimited changes to incorporate the adaptor’s works into the original. Adaptation implies fidelity to the original and at some point of the adaptor had altered the original more than is necessary for the change of medium, the product goes from an adaptation to a derivative work “based on.” Further, following a common story archetype does not make a creative work an adaptation. Read the history of the development of the Lion King sometime if you want and it went through years of creative before someone noticed that the product was beginning to resemble Hamlet. Coincidental resemblance is not adaptation. You continually claim to have not read the books here so you have no basis to comment on fidelity to the books but these shows are more a creation of the writers than of Robert Jordan so calling it an adaptation is questionable at best. Further, it is on record that Rafe Judkins has stated his desire to adapt the themes to a more modern sensibility, which is why we get some things like the Avi/Elayne hookup (because polyamory is good, I guess, and sex sells), vs. the polygamy from the books (because patriarchy is bad, or something). We are clearly way outside of the realm of adaptation at this point and pretty firmly in the realm of fan fiction where we are seeing RJ’s story as filtered through how the writers want the story to be for themselves, just to fit into a coherent story in an alternate medium.

I don’t recall anything like that in the books but it’s an awesome idea to be so powerful that you have some sort of persistent weave that just works automatically on anyone around you.

Thank you for deciphering my idiotic autocorrect.

But stakes aren’t very high when getting stabbed a dozen times, for example, doesn’t matter.

I never considered that he’s constantly channeling compulsion, but the one question I then have is have we seen anyone channel “secretly” in this show without us as the viewers seeing the weaves? We might have, I just don’t remember. I suppose we did with Rand in the first season, but then we see the weaves in his flashbacks, right?

There are some characters in this series that shouldn’t be portrayed as having casual sex and Galad is one of them. Mat should not have heard that.

When Perrin, Loial, and the maidens enter EF, shouldn’t the ogier have freaked people out? The town was recently ravaged by trollocs and continues to have a trolloc problem and a creature that someone from EF mistook for a trolloc (after having fought them and been chased by them) just strolls down the street and nobody reacts in terror?

You’re not supposed to do that? No wonder I get kicked out of so many firing ranges…

Yes. Your spoilers are the absolute worst. Amazon is just shooting themselves in the foot. Why use those in their own content? (Yes, I know…$$$).

Observations while I watch: 1. Morgase looked good in the flashback but wasn’t one of her definining features a youthful look? They aged her up too much for “present time.” Elaina was good. The killings seemed out of character. Was Gaebril in the picture at the time? 2. The casual use of waygates is troubling. And what was that comment by Loial about being better than “all that channeling?” Has he been traveling via channeling much? 3. I still like how weaving come from off screen, more like they are using threads already there than conjuring them by themselves. 4. I liked seeing Rand doing katas with Lan but when Lan asks if he wants to talk about his distraction I cringed. Not Lan. 5. Mat fighting Elayne’s brothers was such a great scene in the books. I’m sad they skipped that, here.

I suppose this topic can have some spoilers for both the show and the book, though I'll try not to spoil specific events, but just discuss abilities. I am a bit concerned with the level of power the Aes Sedai exhibit thus far and am wondering if it is problematic. I do acknowledge that the use of powers creates spectacle, which is great for a visual medium; there is no denying that the fight to start season 3 was visually cool. Yet it seems to me that the Aes Sedai are far to powerful than they ought to be at the moment. Consider that in the books, one of the defining charateristics of the Aes Sedai is how little they know of the power, having forgotten almost everything from the Age of Legends. The Forsaken even go so far as to label their lack of skills as childlike. This is important because if offers a stark contrast between the Aes Sedai, who are initially seen as incredibly powerful, and characters like the Forsaken, Rand, and then the wonder girls who surpass them by orders of magnitude. Between the end of season 2 and the beginnng of season 3, though, we see feats of weaving that would have been earth-shattering in the books, from Moiraine sinking a fleet from who knows how far off to makng someone vomit blood, cutting a sister in half, instantly killing a sister with a weave to the forehead, and healing wounds in Nyn and Perrin that should have been fatal. On top of that, channeling is supposed to be draining for these women, and bigger weaves cause exhaustion and - as seen with Moiraine - unconsuiousness. We saw a bit of that in S1E1, but they juxtoposed that with a trolloc wound. Here's why I think this matters: 1. This diminishes how special it is for Nyn, Eggy, and Elayne to excel. Yes, they will discover some things that were thought lost, ut Nyn as a healer doesn't seem all that special anymore, since it seems like anything aside from instant death can just be healed away now. Maybe if she goes super-saiyan and mass heals, or actually resurrects somone, it will be special, but they've taken that from her a bit. The same goes for other weaves that we will see the girls perform. 2. This also diminishes Rand's relative power, or at least seems to. This also seems to take away from some of his more intersting weaves, like the power-wrought blade, which we've now seen. Also, balefire. One of the biggest temtations Rand has to use balefire is that it is essentially an instant kill. That was earth-shattering in the books. Well, we've seen a similar power used here against two Aes Sedai at once. For me, this is a little like the Harry Potter movies where in the first series we saw spells being created with a flick of a want and clear diction, but come the Fantastic Beasts movies, the wizards are slinging spells around rapid-fire without verbalization. It was jarring, even if within the lore verbaliation wasn't necessary all the time; there was a difference in visual tone with how spellcasting was represented. Here we have the Fantastic Beasts scenario as I think Aes Sedai power doesn't jive with how they should be according to the books or even the show lore at this point. The solution to power creep is, of course, more power creep but at some point the distinction between the ability to kill multiple people at once to the ability to kill more multiple peoples at once becomes inconsequential. I cna't help but feel I wish the Aes Sedai seemed more limited in their abilities now so as to have a greater impact on abilities in the future.

Yes, yes, once it all hit the fan reactions were as expected, and it even made sense that that lady that got cut in half was seemingly a non-battle ajah (I remember her as grey, but don’t remember now). My whole point, and it was just in a discussion about some of the battle stuff, was that I didn’t like the obvious style-over-substance betrayal bit where a good handful of seconds passed while the black revealed themselves and every single other sitter sat there as if oblivious. Then the fight starts and reactions are understandable.

I’m guessing the ones that got cut in half weren’t black 😜 I agree that there may be some logical reasons, and you can also bring up the ideas of shock or indecision, but it just looked too choreographed and silly to have them look so clueless. At the very least, the realization that Liandrin was black should have had the blues and greens on their feet and ready to go rather than looking cowed and confused.

I did not say that and I’m sure there a a couple dozen people out there who love both the books and the show. I simply pointed out in response to you that loving the IP also doesn’t require one to write a 10-paragraph screed defending every pothole, logical inconsistency, style-over-substance decision, characterization betrayal, etc. that this show is rife with. And just as there are those who love the books, hate the show, yet continue to watch, there are those that are willing to die on the hill of whatever objectively bad writing decision was made. If you find yourself comfortably in the middle, great; it’s no secret that I’m clearly on one end of that spectrum where I adore the books and despise what the show has done, but I also continue to watch because I want to (hopefully) see things I’ve only had in my head for decades.

It also doesn’t require contortionist levels of apologetics but the pendulum swings both ways.

The battles look pretty good visually and I give the show credit for that, but also think they are structurally a mess. The thing that really irritated me was when Liandrin is exposed and calls on the other blacks to reveal themselves. They then slowly stand up in the middle of all their sisters, walk to the center of the room, then wreak havoc while all of the other Sitters just kind of sit there watching it happen until the carnage starts. These Sitters - supposedly some of the best Aes Sedai on the planet, just sit there. It’s the Monty Python scene where one of the Knights is running across the field while the guard watches for a minute then it cuts to him getting sneak attack killed.

Perhaps asked and answered but I’m late to the thread - when they are in the room with all an angreal, the camera focuses on one that is some sort of cross of cubes, if that description makes sense; my memory is failing me - what is that supposed to be?

Morbid fascination. It’s like watching a train wreck or rubbernecking an accident. This is the most irreverent adaptation I have ever seen coupled with some amateurish and nonsensical writing, and the show itself paired with a handful of vocal apologists who will bend over backwards to describe how the writers and show runners are clearly better than Robert Jordan and who are really playing 4D chess with the story offers a bizarre experience. Plus, some of us love the source material so much that we continue to hope to catch glimpses of what we love beneath the bastardized veneer.

The writers have an immature and shallow worldview that can’t differentiate between eros and philia.