Andra

It's true that unreliable narrators seem to have been one of Jordan's most popular tropes. But it's really difficult to reconcile the idea that Verin was lying about her motivations with the fact that she LITERALLY COMMITTED SUICIDE in order to be able to give Egwene her notes. I don't think there is any basis at all in disbelieving Verin's claims about herself and her actions. Particularly considering what Sheriam said when told about it.

I think you have misread Lan's reaction to the boys, as well as how much training he gave them on that trip. Considering how inexpressive Lan is, his reaction indicates astonishment at all three of their skills with the bow. He was even more surprised that they didn't consider themselves to be all that special. Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the quarterstaff because he didn't realize he was amazingly proficient. Compared to his and Rand's fathers - and to at least a few other men from the village - he wasn't. He wasn't good enough to compete against the men yet. From what we hear from Verin and Alanna's warders later, Two Rivers folk in general and Emond's Fielders in particular have somehow maintained an ability through their long peaceful history that is only surpassed by Borderlanders. That doesn't mean they would have drilled as soldiers - something that would only make sense in people facing relatively frequent warfare - but that they retained and even reinforced the personal skills useful to individual warriors. We don't see them training, per se - until the Whitecloaks and trollocs show up. But we do hear of them "practicing." The point being that they didn't think of what they were doing as training for battle, even though it was. It was just practicing for the contests. Or for hunting. Or for protecting their flocks of sheep from predators. Throughout the books, we see people being surprised by the fighting ability of Two Rivers folk - particularly the "Two Rivers Longbow." Not just a few exceptional people, but many of them. I don't believe this is a rationalization - fantastic or otherwise. I believe Jordan intended it. It's part of what "the Old Blood runs strong in the Two Rivers" is talking about. As far as Lan training the boys - yes, it's true that he spent more time and energy on Rand. But that's because Lan was a swordsman, and knew it best. But he definitely trained Mat and Perrin as well. Not so much with their individual weapons, but with the things every warrior needs to learn - self control, focus, attention to your surroundings, etc. And we know this continued every night between Taren Ferry and Baerlon, at least. And that this resulted in them holding their own when finally attacked by shadowspawn between Berlon and Shadar Logoth. When Mat first starts shouting in the Old Tongue, and some of the others feel like they almost understand them. The point is that Emond's Fielders are surprisingly good at fighting from very early in the story, and the Boys are surprisingly good with their individual weapons before they received any high-level training. They then received actual training from Lan, and then the Shienarans. Rand drilled every day on the trip by himself or with Ingtar, who admired his skill enough to question his background. Remember that Rand had killed several grolm with his bow, and even gotten the wolf name Shadowkiller before even reaching Cairhien. It's true that Jordan wrote all three of them as unrealistically good with weapons given how short their training was. But he wrote them that way BEFORE living the "extra lives" through the Portal Stone. Rand didn't have to be any better to kill Turak than he did to take back the Horn of Valere from Fain's trollocs and darkfriends. The extra lives may have given him a kind of emotional certainty that he hadn't possessed, but they weren't need to explain his skill with the sword.

One thing people tend to forget about the battle skills of all three of them - or pretty much all of the Two Rivers - is what happened just after the group crossed the Taren, and Lan decided to start training the Boys as a way to kill time. They were all much better to begin with than Lan expected. Because without quite understanding it, the entire district trained for war for their entire lives. And had done for centuries. The boys' explanation to Lan about the contests of strength and skill they took part in for fun during festivals was to make the reader get a little chuckle. But in fact, it meant far more than that. Manetheren died, but its warrior traditions persisted in what the common folk viewed as just their local traditions. They were formidable without even knowing it. All three of them started out as surprisingly competent fighters. And then they started training in earnest - first with probably the most highly-skilled Warder alive, and then with the people who he grew up with, who nearly matched him in skill. Before the Portal Stone, they were all three almost as good as the best the Borderlands had to offer. And while neither Mat nor Perrin ever attained proficiency with the Flame and Void, they each had their own alternative to it. We don't really need thousands of lives to explain it. The lives we see do enough of it for the story.

They all seem to have been affected by what they experienced, based on nothing more than their immediate responses. But some of their arcs were probably inevitable. Verin didn't actually stray from the Light, so there was nothing to "return" to. She had essentially become a mole in the enemy's organization, not an actual Darkfriend. What she saw only seemed to reinforce her previous choices. Ingtar's redemption was more a matter of realizing there was real hope where he had previously been hopeless. But he was always the same honorable man inside. I believe that, if he had lived, he would have sought redemption before the end regardless. Masema was going to end up a madman no matter what happened. It's hard to say whether Mat and Perrin actually changed based on what they experience via the Portal Stone, or by what they experienced over the following days. Though Mat at least did seem disturbed by what he learned about himself.

Elaida is an example of someone doing irreparable harm to a cause they believe they are helping. Because of their arrogance and incompetence. But her actions in New Spring are no more arrogant than any other Aes Sedai's, and significantly less incompetent than many. In the White Tower, a comparatively strong Novice gives status to the Sisters who recruited her, who trained her, and to the Ajah she eventually joins. Given their individual histories, neither Moiraine nor Siuan were technically "recruited" by any Sister, but Elaida took an early interest in both due to her personal political views and ambitions. As a child of a minor noble house in Murandy, she despised both Illian and Andor. So latching onto Novices from Tear (Illian's rival) and Cairhien (Andor's rival) and training them to be strong was understandable. And being a minor noble with a particular sensitivity to status, she could be particularly cruel to those from social classes she viewed as either beneath or above her. Siuan was far beneath her socially, while Moiraine was far above her. Hence the odd combination of cruelty in their training and pride at their success. Myrelle, being Ebu Dari and weaker than either Moiraine or Siuan (or Elaida), held neither of the attractions they did for her.

"The Heron-marked Cricket Bat."

The problem with that solution is that the channelers involved have to be able to act independently. In the scene, the fatal burnout happens while all of them are locked into a Circle, controlled by someone else. BECAUSE they are locked into a Circle controlled by someone else. Egwene couldn't prop up Nynaeve, because Egwene couldn't do anything the leader of the Circle didn't control. Of course, it's explicitly stated in the books (by people who are very familiar with the mechanics of it) that a person in a Circle can't be made to draw more Power than they can handle. So the "problem" the solution solves ALREADY violates the rules of the magic system. Virtually everything relating to the use of Saidar in that scene breaks world-building.

With Perrin, rather than Rand, as "The One." It's just a weave, Egwene.

No, but the comment you replied to was in response to someone doing precisely that. It wasn't just from out of the blue.

As is the idea that any criticism of the show can be dismissed as "shallow and uninteresting."

Which is why every village had its Wisdom or the equivalent. It wasn't to run the Women's Circle; it was to provide the healing and other things the Aes Sedai weren't around to provide.

And Mosk fighting Merk and Elsbet is a reference to the Cold War. Mosk = Moscow Merk = America Elsbet = Queen Elizabeth II Many of the legendary references can be identified as real-world historical events (mostly 20th-century). Many of the rest are from our own legends.

All of which can be said to be based on the real-world Templars.

Mat's amulet came from the Finns. Who knows where they got it from? There is absolutely no reason to believe Rahvin even knew it existed, much less that Mat was wearing it. To believe he intentionally did something to bypass it is to assign knowledge to him that is not believable. Rand felt Rahvin weaving the lightning. He put up a shield to block the weave, but was too slow. Rand plainly thought that Rahvin's "weave of Fire and Air" (neither of which would appear to be a part of natural lightning) WAS the lightning, not just its trigger. Rand's response to Mat's death showed he believed that the foxhead could block Saidar, but not Saidin. Granted, Jordan was very fond of the "Unreliable Narrator" trope, and could be misleading the reader into believing Rand's mistaken opinion. But that just restates the question: Did Jordan want us to believe that because he intended it to be true, but then changed his mind? Did Jordan want us to believe that but always intended the impression to be false? Did Jordan always intend this kind of narrow interpretation of the difference between "direct weave" and "indirect effect"? Rand clearly thought Rahvin's lightning was a direct weave, not an indirect effect. Was he just wrong? Or was he right and Jordan changed his mind - or made a mistake? Did the foxhead protect against Saidin - but only direct weaves, or did it only protect against Saidar?

Don't know how far along you are by now, sixteen months later. But there's a phrase you should look out for in the later books: It's kind of a shock when it comes, but oh so satisfying.

It's not that nothing that happens in Tel'aran'rhiod can affect the real world, it's that only things that happen to people in Tel'aran'rhiod persist in the real world. We see examples of things happening to people in the world of dreams persisting after they wake up all through the series. It's why the Aiel Dreamers were so insistent that Egwene stay out of it unless she was with one of them. It's why Rand killing Rahvin with balefire in TAR resulted in Mat and Aviendha coming back to life in the real Caemlyn. Because those were all about things happening to people in TAR persisting in the waking world. Regarding the a'dam that Nynaeve dreamed up - it didn't persist. Elayne made one to use in the real world. A different version, that could be disguised as a set of jewelry. The reason they were able to put it on Moghedien before she could escape is because Nynaeve drugged her in TAR so she wouldn't wake up in time to get away. And as the drugging happened to her person, the effects lasted just as they would have in real life.

It is my understanding that while "Champion of the Light" is a role the Wheel spins out time after time, "Dragon" was just a nickname - Lews Therin's nickname. In the same way that "Silverbow," "Farstrider" and "Goldeneyes" are nicknames. It's not that LTT is the only Dragon we know by name, it's that the name only ever applied to him. Rand is the Dragon Reborn because he is literally LTT's soul reincarnated. He is also the "Champion of the Light" - just as LTT was. The Light's champion could be anyone. Man or woman. Channeler or not. But only one person at any given time.

That was my impression. Especially with Rand's internal comment when looking at Mat's smoking corpse. Whether from lightning as a secondary effect, or from Saidin itself being channeled, the foxhead didn't even protect itself, much less the person wearing it. And Rand had felt the lightning bolts being woven. He had woven his shield of Fire and Air to block their Fire and Air - seemingly implying that the lightning wasn't just an effect, but was an actual Weave. It seemed at that point that Jordan clearly intended the medallion to protect against Saidar but not Saidin. Then Halima channeled Saidin at Mat. And all bets are off.

And to quote a different franchise: "This will really bake your noodle." It hard to picture anything else in Randland that is a more direct application of the One Power on something physical than holding a Gateway open. So much so that Shadowspawn (except for Gholam) can't survive going through one. Descriptions of how they initially take shape show the Power directly altering reality before the weaves that create the "frame" of the Gateway even exist. Which would seem to say that every atom of the space within a Gateway is being directly affected by Saidar or Saidin for the entire time it's open. Yet Mat passes through Gateways multiple times with the fox-head. As do other people with the clones Elayne made of it.

This scene brings up an apparent contradiction regarding Mat and his amulet. Whatever was happening, it was clearly Halima channeling at him. With Saidin. Yet when Mat is killed in Caemlyn (before being "rewound" back to life by Rand's balefire) we are told that the fox-head didn't protect him from Saidin. Which raises the question: how were the two events different? Was Halima trying to directly touch him with the Power (by Compulsion or anything else) so it shielded him, but Rahvin's lightning wasn't the Power directly, so it didn't? Remember that either Adeleas or Vandene threw horse manure at him with Saidar, and it didn't protect him. In other words, was it an oversight/contradiction? Or a clever application of the rules?

What if Moiraine were his carneira? There must be a reason it was brought up in the context of what she saw in the rings in Rhuidean. That would certainly explain where RJ got the idea for that little tidbit. But seriously - I would view the genesis of New Spring as sort of Jordan's version of The Silmarillion. He finally wrote down the ideas he had always had in his head as his Legendarium. I don't think he had ever intended to write it out until Silverberg approached him. If he had ever conceived of the Dragon Reborn as an older man when he met Moiraine, I don't think it ever got any further than an idea. Certainly not far enough to be considered his original intent for the beginning of the story. If he had written a novel as long as those in the rest of the series, it probably would have included Jain Farstrider, the Fall of Malkier, and the events that led to Laman's Sin, not just its aftermath. We would have actually met Tigraine, not just the people who once knew her. We might have seen how Luc and Isam met and "teamed up" and what happened when Janduin encountered them in the Blight. Those were all things RJ probably had in those notes, and he picked a relatively small bit of it out to write the version of New Spring we ultimately got. Imagine getting your hands on those notes.

Obviously, a use of the One Power in the natural world. Saidin or Saidar?

The bigger question is - where did Luca get eucalyptus to feed them? Perhaps they were a brown species of pandas, and the "branches" were bamboo?

Or possibly that Rhuidean, with its wards against entry, is viewed as a kind of extension of their world. I'd say that they the reason they don't pass through the doorways is because they dislike it, not because they are in some way forbidden.

No, if you produced slag as a waste product of smelting steel, you didn't make the slag for a purpose. The statement I was responding to was that Aginor created the Myrddraal explicitly for some purpose. In reality, they were an accident that took him completely by surprise. That's pretty much the opposite of "explicitly for a purpose." There is also no evidence anywhere in the books that the Dark One created them explicitly for a purpose either. Whether through Aginor's actions or not. He certainly made extensive use of them, but there's no evidence he planned their existence. And though the Forsaken were only permitted to use the True Power with permission, they were absolutely familiar with it. If it were obvious that's the source of the Myrddraals' abilities, he would have discovered it when he tested several of them to destruction. And no, that's not what "Distinction without a difference" means.