DreadLord31

Yes but is it in this first episode? I think it’d be quite a strange episode/energy if this happens after the cold open scene in the show timeline and not before somehow, don’t you think? My guess is that in the first episode - we’ll get the BA battle as the cold open scene- but then go back in time for the rest of the episode & see what led up to it. Maybe?

They are in TV. In the cold open you have Lan & Moiraine in TV seeing the effects of the BA battle & having apparently already connected with Suian. Nynaeve is in that clip. This clip is confirmed from the first episode. In fact, I think about 1/4 of the first episode has been released at this point. The clip that was just released of the Galad and Gawyn fight is the warder training ground of the WT and Matt, Nynaeve, Elayne, and Min are in it. Yes, that would have to be route - I guess, as pointed out - that didn't make sense to me if in the clip they were saying that they'd be headed to Tear in the morning. It's good Tv. I'm getting good vibes from this. I'm not sure how this is going to all fit in the first episode (if it is first episode material) especially if the BA battle is the cold open - unless we time jump and then go back in time? But hey, in the Wheel of Time, we can do all sorts of interesting things with time, right?! I really hope we get that scene and it's well choreographed; it's an iconic Matt moment from the books & we've gotten none of that so far in the show. I think they should just pretend everything they've done thus far with the SL dagger didn't happen and start afresh with that plot-line! lol

It's funny how minds work, because I didn't even read my own typo & my mind automatically "corrected it"; and if you hadn't said this, I would have never noticed that I typed "immorality" instead of "immortality" & that someone made a joke of it! lol That is funny!

Im sure it’s including the cost of the Licensing/buying the rights to make it; so good point. But All that means is that the more episodes they make that number of “cost per episode” will come down (other than that I think it’s still worth considering)! Especially since, say in the case of RoP, they have lots of financial incentive to not cancel a show but keep making episodes if you paid, say 1 Billion dollars, in order to make any episodes at all. Anybody know what the licensing/rights to WoT cost? Doesn’t Sony currently hold the rights?

It did look that way; but I think one of Moiraine’s lines in the show was something about Lanfear being “granted immorality by the DO.” Maybe I’m remembering wrong?

Actually, I was just looking this up and it’s not in the top 5 according to my googling (WoT is about 10 million an episode). RoP is by far more expensive (58 million an episode). Citadel reportedly cost about 50 million an episode. Stranger Things 30 million an episode. And most of the Marvel shows are about 25 million an episode. So yeah. Cancel RoP and give us more money and more episodes!

Yes. Do that. More episodes! RoP is more expensive than WoT and is not even half as good.

Some initial thoughts on the clips: 1) Confirmed time jump - they spent "a month couped up on a boat" in order to get to TV? Ummm - there's no way to get from Falme to TV by ship. Soooo that's interesting... 2) Confirmed that all the main cast starts in TV in S1 (don't love that [especially Rand and Aiel in TV - that would never happen in the books without a big-time throw-down] unless we get an explanation of why they went there, but ok). And why would Moiraine be giving this warning about the network of Red Ajah spies - after bringing them into TV? Why did you go to TV then? 3) Costume department is still on top of their game - seriously give those ladies a raise - killing it! 4) Elayne is the only character sitting ... significant? 5) Brother Book - holding a book - making a perfect Lolial comment about always leaving at dawn - love it! 6) The Rand and Moiraine tension/dialogue - "Where do you want to go?" "Home." ect... Well written. Feeling good about that. Mixed feelings. Hard to set aside book knowledge/overlook lack of attention to detail with lines like "couped up on a boat for a month". Just seems like such lazy writing at times. But then they have these amazing flashes of brilliance - with the acting and writing as well. So, I don't know. I'm still really exited but also some trepidation.

Even if this season was ... only just as good as S2 ... I still hope they keep going! It's hands down better than Rings of Power or anything else on - even if it's just "pretty good"!

You guys already know you can go on Prime and register for the Fan Event this Saturday - and get to watch the first episode early, right?

Honestly, I don't think we're going to get that (but I could easily be wrong since we know that Rhuidean is in episode 4!). But I do agree that they've shown an ability to "show and not tell" and get across bigger concepts in shorter scenes. For example, having Bain and Chiad beat down Avi because of Ji'eh'toh. For me, perhaps the best writing of the entire show thus far, was the scene of Ishy and Lanfear in the Tel'aran'rhiod. That dialogue was as good as anything that was in the books; and IMO actually made the viewer understand the Forsaken dynamics with each other better than anything in books. Ishy: "Are you going to betray me?" Lanfear: "Obviously." Ishy: "Do you know why the DO released me first and trusts me above all the other Chosen?" Lanfear: "Because Moghedien is insane. Graendal is a vain idiot. And the boys couldn't execute a plan even if it was set up for them on a silver platter." Ishy: "It's because I actually believe in the Dark. I want to break the Wheel and end all this misery and suffering." I'm looking forward to seeing if they can make the other Forsaken more 3D - we've already gotten Lanfear's motivation and we know they're going to do more with that this season (we're going to see Meiran) - she really genuinely loves LTT & sold her soul to get him to love her back. She's the worst crazy ex-girlfriend you can imagine! lol Isha'mael was the ultimate nihilist - and a true believer - in the Reincarnation worldview you can actually sympathize with his motivation to just have it all END. I'm hoping that we actually get some more of the motivations of the other Forsaken as well. Like perhaps we find out that Moghedien really is just a dark-tetrad type personality and enjoys hurting people? And Graendal sold her soul to be the most beautiful and really is just vanity incarnate. And Sammael is driven by jealously - he wants to be LTT. Hopefully they explore these things. They've done a better job than the books thus far - let's give credit where credit is due!

I think the showrunner/writers have actually gotten a little too much undo criticism (and some of it even from me!); if you consider that they had to deal with COVID and a main character leaving the show & then with the SAG/writers strike... and when you had an impossibly long and complex fantasy book series to adapt in the first place ... I think they've done alright thus far. And I rewatched S2 - and I think it was - for the most part - pretty well written as far as a TV show/adaptation goes. My ... main beef ... if you will ... with the writing so far... is that they framed all of S1 around the question, "Who is the Dragon?" and I don't think that's a compelling question. And ... it's hard to say with viewing numbers ... if things dropped off so bad with S2 because people didn't like S1 or if people actually thought S1 was better than S2? But, all that is to say, I don't think they have enough time to give much more exploration into Tinker and Aiel culture - but I think they'll have some well-written short scenes that will help set-up that payoff a bit.

This is an excellent point. What happens with the Forsaken is not, purely speaking, Reincarnation - since they aren't "reborn" into a new body. It's more like a transmigration of a soul directly into an already formed body. I'm not sure what you would call it - because it's not resurrection. I think in the show they used the phrase "granted immorality" about Lanfear & I liked how they pictured her coming back to life after being killed.

People are assuming Ishy is in this season because he's on the poster? That's not a good assumption. We are definitely getting AoL flashbacks - that could be why he's in the poster. We have no confirmations that his character is back in their timeline that I know of. I agree. I hope the showrunner and Amazon writers understand how core to the story it is that in the Reincarnation Worldview - Good always has to struggle to overcome Evil - and there is no end. Part of the ... discouragement and arc that the heroes go through is the fact that ... every enemy they defeat comes back (unless they balefire them - which they are never supposed to do, but do all the time)!

As someone who studies religion(s) there is absolutely a difference and Lezbi Nerdy is wrong. Resurrection means that there is a continuity with your physical body - you, in your body, come alive again and live forever. [This is the foundational Western Christian belief.] And is easier to do for a show because you don’t have to change actors/actresses. Reincarnation is the idea that you have an immortal soul that is reborn into a new body (human or animal). This is basic belief of several Eastern Religions & what happens in WoT. Hard to show in the show that Isha’mael’s soul is in Moridin's body (I suppose you could have a different actor but have them copy mannerisms or something?). Though they have shown reincarnation through AoL flashblacks and the fact that LTT is a different actor than Rand (Dragon/Dragon Reborn don't have the same body). I haven't seen the Lesbi Nerdi video though - and another thread made me aware of the fact that - even in the books - what happens with the DO and the Forsaken isn't, purely speaking, reincarnation or resurrection. Because the Forsaken's souls are put immediately into a new adult body. So - would need a new word for that. But I liked what the show did with Lanfear; though then they were rather inconsistent in making it seem like Ishy is really dead and gone (which in the books can only happen by balefire, which they are never supposed to do - but do all the time! lol)

Nobody is “resurrected” in the books. Wheel of Time is intentionally from the Eastern Worldview. They are reincarnated. I understand why logistically and cinematically the show is doing resurrections instead … or in Lanfear’s case they used the phrase “granted immortality” (tough to change out actors/actresses & hard to show and not tell “reincarnation”.) I just feel it’s an important distinction…

If the show decides that Couladin and Demandred could be combined and that Couladred isn’t just Savanna’s puppet - that could be a “a good change…a good change.”

Because the Lanfear and Ishy dialogue didn’t seem as if they were trying to be comprehensive even in scene. So, it doesn’t need to “square”. She says, “Because Moggy is crazy, Graendal is a vain idiot & the boys couldn’t accomplish a plan if…” She could have easily left out Mesanna or Semirhage because she actually respects them and doesn’t think they are totally incompetent. So a 4-4 split makes a ton of sense based on overall lore (balance & symmetry), the statues, and the writers tendency to prefer female characters that they’ve demonstrated throughout seasons 1 and 2. And going back to the statues - I think there’s only one that’s questionable - the one between Asmo and Graendal. 2 farthest to left based on descriptions has got to be Semirhage.

I think that the Woman Figurine is just a dreamweaver. One of the content creators (Road to Tar Valon) did a video on it that was quite good. Pretty much all of the most significant sa’angreals are in there except for the access key (which I think Moiraine gets in Rhuidien and we saw in the teaser & is just going to be an orb). I think it makes most sense that it’s the SAD bracelet that is the “it”. Irregardless 🙂 it’ll be the inciting event for the Tanchico story line with Nynaeve Elayne and Matt for this season. (And hopefully TvThom returns!)

@A Memory Of Why Thank you. Alright so… 2 in the center are Ishy and Lanfear. Statue to right of Lanfear has a guitar pointed down (got to be Asmo!); one to the left of Ishy (Chewy) is clearly Sammael; and the one to the far right (bosom) is clearly Graendal. So the one between Asmo and Graendal is unaccounted for and the two on the far left. We know Moggy is in the show and is “the spider” and Lanfear thinks she’s crazy but Ishy released her. Honestly, I think the Egyptian-esque one on the far left is Moggy (see how the base is kind of like an egg?) If that’s the case then of the 2 left one is clearly female and the other male. I think the one next to Sammael is Semirhage. And then the one next to Asmo will be Rahvin. Demandred makes the most sense to cut. He’s a non character and then comes out of the blue. I really wonder if Jordan had a plan for him that he never got around to writing? Rafe has made comments about combining characters (Amys and Baer, for example). So if they’re trying to combine some Forsaken - that would screw up this analysis…

Can anybody post a pic of the 8 little figurines we see in S1 and another of the statues in S2 at the Forsaken temple?

This is mostly correct, clearly. And is an important point that has been lost in this discussion of the realism of the battle. When they’re going to the docks to escape the city there is a very important line from Liandrin. She says, “Did you get it?” Referring to an item from the 13th depository. Think about the significance of that line for this whole scene!

Certainly all of us would like to forget the Disney Star Wars Trilogy… But for WoT S3 I think they already did a number of really smart writing things in 10 min we saw. Which makes me hopeful we’re not going full JJ (as you say) For example, by simply having Siuan say to a bunch of true accusations from Liandrin “If you had proof the Hall would have no choice but to…” Having Moiraine say, “Todays not about her (Siuan)” … which sets up with one line that they have a plan/have reunited. Showing us a bunch of angreals (SAD bracelet, Balefire rod, dreamweavers, other ones I forget but are really important) and then having Liandrin say, “Did you get it?” which introduces mystery at what they were after but also tells you that killing Aes Sedai in the Hall wasn’t their objective.

What are you referring to here? Pardon my ignorance.

Well put. And breaking the “autopilot” - can be fine - because it sparked all those questions and interest; BUT you have to answer those questions in the next scenes. Though, we’ve seen a lot of precedence thus far, of questionable writing. I think they had good excuses (Barney leaving, writers strike)! But want to see some really good writing in S3. And I think there was good writing and a lot of clever lines in the 11 min clip we saw! So I’m hopeful.