HeavyHalfMoonBlade

Your core issue is that I am deliberately misrepresenting you. I don't think I am. I pointed out before I felt a smoking gun was when you, then RTE, jumped on Cass for changing her vote. Given the hindsight that both Verbal (who she took her vote off) and her were Town, doesn't that make you look bad? Is that not much more specifically using "pre-flip" information that directly lead to Cass's lynching? Even when it was proven that her moving her vote from lock clear Verbal, was not in any way wolfy? By what standard did me talking about my fears and suspicions, that showed no preknowlwdge and did not lead to the lynching of a townie, more suspicious than anyone else's EoD1, specifically yours? If you were so OK with lynching RTE, why not just move to that train? I cannot see how your criticism of me stands up.

This is behaviour consistent with someone in their second game? I don't see that I was misrepresenting anything. I feel like you are trying to deflect the issue, that your suspicions of me are paper thin. But of course I would think that. But in the interest of Town I'm trying to meet you halfway here.

Well that will be tricky. Outside of you and RTE, me voting would be a glorified game of pin the tail on the donkey. But probably less humorous and fun all round. But to be clear your suspicions of me revolve around a player in his second game ever, first game randed wolf (in your eyes) , single handedly orchestrating D2 lynches on D1? Wow. And I thought you didn't like me. But don't you think that is a bit of a stretch, even for a player of my undoubted talents?

Perhaps because you were involved you have a slightly different understanding of what was in the thread. The rest of us did not have your pov thoughts. But let's leave that there. It was a major incident and it certainly flavoured how I at least viewed all your other interactions. I was also very suspicious of how you dovetailed with RTE, for example. But I ask again, is there anything I can do to ease your suspicions of me?

I am summarising and paraphrasing to the best of my ability. My memory falls somewhere short of photographic. But in your memory, it was not only Zander that was at fault but half the thread? Don't you think then that perhaps you came over stronger than you meant to? For so many people to react so? You have repeatedly downplayed it as ancient history but it set the tone of D1, made many people suspicious of you and Zander, and meant that all of D1 was viewed through the eyes of our suspicion of you two. Adding in Verbals's attempts to appear a little bit wolfy to protect him from NK and the day was a complete mess, which is where still kind of are. That is why for me it remains a very relevant occurrence for Town and it seems strange that you are pinning responsibility not just on town!Zander but also most other people in the game.

I don't understand your vitriol. With Zander you were both clearly calling each other wolfy for calling the other wolfy for calling the wolfy etc ad infinitum. You also both did the "I'm leaving this argument alone, only a wolf would continue" while also finding it very difficult to actually walk away. I don't understand what motivated it, but it clearly was initiated by you. Even if it was town on town collateral damage, it doesn't change what actually happened. I am not aware that I have actively insulted anyone. I have said I don't like your tone, as you appear very defensive and combative. If I did cross any lines when I was spiralling hard into frustration, I sincerely apologise. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have asking why Gud gets a free pass and why people aren't voting for her. If I'm confusing you with RTE, again I apologise but you have made several long posts about Gudrean and to say you are not giving her the finger of suspicion because your are not actively and solely trying to have her lynched seems to be splitting hairs. I don't think attacking each other is going to help resolve anything. Is there anything I can do to ease your suspicions of me?

Of course, consider it done.

I think you said Lenlo when you meant Verbal. Poor overworked mods 😞

Yup. Is 11pm for me so easy to be around for. In theory, lol.

UNVOTE VOTE LENLO Not saying I'm off RTE, but I did find his denial convincing however little I understand how he has played. If Dice is a wolf that would also help give cred to RTE unless it is bussing. I'm totally confused and quite happy to say if town do win it will have little to do with my reads.

Would lynch : RTE, Lenlo Could be convinced: Dice Could be convinced but he's been saying nice things about me: Turin

Cow

If Z is cleared now, why are you arguing about this. What does it matter?

Also it is worthwhile pointing out that both Lenlo and RTE are having a go at Gudrean while also recommending we lynch her. Yet if she is wolf, she isn't a millstone around anyone's neck, and she isn't playing bad, she has beguiled the two lock clear players, is having fun, lighting up the chat and making Town work hard to lay any hard suspicion on her. She cannot be a wolf and a terrible town player. This repeated concept of policy lynching town players does not seem to be in town's favour. That said you could still be a wolf despite all that, Gudrean 😘

I still cannot get off the feeling how EoD1 went down was suspicious. But it can only have been suspicious if RTE is a wolf. Otherwise the whole menu was Town. I still have no explanation for Lenlo and RTE's behaviour on D1 apart from trying to disrupt Town. That said if Lenlo's behaviour was wolf motivated that would make it so overwhelmingly obvious that it is hard to accept. TWTBW. And RTE was fairly convincing in his denial. No idea what to make of that. But I don't have anything else to go on. Apart from the cleared players anykne is plausible as a wolf, plausible as town. D1 just seemed to go so bad I'm not sure how we recover. I'll be around at DL, should anyone be interested.

We'll have to disagree. I think it should be given that everyone is trying their best. There is a difference between criticizing and attacking. Like if I was the Vig I would never have gone for Shad, so yes criticizing Verb seems fair enough. I wouldn't cause I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing better than me, but criticizing in-game decisions or reads or whatever is fine. Me telling a player he is a millstone around Town's neck and he is going to lose the game for us because he is a terrible player and I wish he had never come back, is obviously not OK and I cannot see that this should even be up for discussion. But there isn't any point taking it further. All I am saying is that all this antagonism I don't see is helping anyone nor is it making it any more fun for anyone.

Someone did not lie to me. Italics, I'm pointing out this new player hate is not restricted to any one alignment. That blatantly is NAI, but you do you. Call out does not mean personally attack. Like I say, your "wolf says what?" push on Gud is totally fair,imo. Last game I had both Z and Turin going at me and it wasn't fun, but it is the game. Attacking people personally and their game style I don't see as pushing.

If the low activity is Town, then would they not be considered LHF? One more mislynch to Wolf victory?

I never said anything about evading consequences, I'm talking about other players treating you like crap because you aren't playing the way they want you to. It's one thing about making a case against someone, it is another thing to just try to make the game as unpleasant as possible for them. Like RTE pushing Gudrean to see how she will react seems like a valid game plan. Lenlo waxing lyrically about how she is a millstone around his neck does not to me. In my most humble opinion of course. And I also don't like how these discussions detract from solving, and are completely NAI, but I feel are rather forced upon us. It seems it should be a given that Town players are trying to get town to win and wolves are trying to win. It seems like that is too much up for debate in this game.

With the staff it is just "being cool in a magic way", IMHO. Not so dissimilar to book!Moiraine in tEotW using her staff to spit fire and all that stuff. Magic user has staff, is expected to use it in a magically cool way.

This is such a weird game. Turin appears helpful but is just free-wheeling through the chat, rather than trying to control it. He has sweet talked me by believing I'm Town so it's difficult to get a read on him. Everything he has posted seems plausible. Dice seems too quiet. Makes sense but doesn't seem to be deep diving. Lenlo claims that he didn't fill the thread with pointless NAI argument early on, even though everyone saw him and Zander do so. Claims he isn't combat e while telling me to "piss off" for trying to help. Claims I make stuff up, misrepresent everything and just am a terrible player, yet also sees this as an argument to lynch me. How can being a bad player be AI? Helping new players does not mean you have to bully them or make the game unpleasant for them. Don't get you at all as your antagonism is major distraction in the thread which doesn't help Town at all, and the way you moved your vote about didn't make any sense to me. RTE's admiration of Lenlo is bizarre. I have no idea what to make of this cheerleading and it is this weird dynamic that most made suspicious of them both. It seems strange that we as new players are told we can play the way we want, we don't have to answer questions or be super active etc but then older players attack them in the thread and moan about millstones around their necks. I don't see how that attitude is meant to help. I have been trying to solve for Town, or pretendíng to so I don't look suspicious, and I have been treated like I was polluting this fine thread for daring to do so. Others have been quieter and have been attacked for being quiet. I just don't see how Town benefits from this atmosphere, though I do see how the wolves do. But then it would be so obvious to act like this... So WIFOM. I cannot read you guys. I cannot see an underlying wolf tactic, I cannot really see what town is trying to do. I get pushing players by calling them sus, but pushing them by calling them bad I don't get.

Fair enough. Didn't say I was recommending it, lol.

We are making great strides I see in solving this game, lol. Maybe it is the Battleships virus, we're infected and every game is going to be like this from now on. If we try to have a round of golf we'd die of old age on the course...

Agreed. This Bela is the Dark One heresy needs to be stamped out with balefire, IMHO.

From the voting, Lenlo, Cairos, Dice makes kind of sense given Dice's comment he would move if you didn't... Except. Should it be that clear? Those three wouldn't have cared who got lynched out of those targets. Unless it was to save the most popular lunch menu for repeat course on next day? Not sure that really makes sense. Why not just let whichever Town dies die, and not leave a pattern in the voting? Lenlo moving is vote about like that is only suspicious really if RTE is a wolf, as far as I can see it. Really left scratching me head here.