HeavyHalfMoonBlade

Welcome to Dragonmount, AlsBeck 🙂 The clubs (social groups? I think they have had a lot names over the years) are just a place to hang out. People there are just themselves, as opposed to someone that grew up in the streets of Caemlyn. To check them out just sign up here, which will open up all the White Tower threads (which is the most active club at the moment), and then a good and recommended start would be to introduce yourself in a few of the Ajahs and ask a question. Straight away that should give you an idea of how the Tower works and introduce you to who is about, and show how odd it is to act like a Novice amongst Aes Sedai.

This is a fantastic rationalisation, but I don't think it is supported by the books. Mat and Perrin barely trained with Lan at all. As I remember Perrin was set some basic exercises, and we never see him practice weaponry again in the story that I can remember. I don't remember Lan being particularly impressed at any point, but that could be my failing. The games, perhaps being based on Highland games, would only show off what talents that the Fielders already had. We never hear of anyone training. The smith was the strongest man due to his profession, not any training regime. Indeed, having someone as strong as Master Luhhan, would make training strength for the vast majority of the villagers pointless in terms of competing in a competition. The same for footraces (or any other discipline) - only those gifted in the sport would be motivated to cultivate that ability. The Fielders, with perhaps the exception of the quarterstaff (though again this highlights the change in Mat's character, that even when prompted by Lan, "Gollem" Mat didn't think about his amazing proficiency with the weapon) never show any skills that they would not use in their everyday lives. To claim they were trained to be soldiers or warriors is not backed up by any information in the books that I can remember. Indeed, they are very against the command structure needed for soldiery and only got around to it under extreme duress when they then decided they loved having unelected officials that controlled much of their lives. Who wants freedom, huh? Mat has a lot reasons for being special - the "old blood running strong" with his ability to speak the old tongue in snatches (a feature not explored in much depth or in anyway explained) and his memories given by the Finn. Perrin on the other hand, doesn't really have any of these features except strength and some sort of barezerk rage, either inherent or from being a wolfbrother. But he is a ta'veren, and is cloaked in plot armour, and has a touch of main character syndrome. He couldn't just remain a clumsy country oaf, but I think Jordan could have done more to justify martial prowess in story.

In the beginning, you needed to be the best swordsman in the world and have the benefits (and protection from their "powers") of the Warder bond to be a match for a Fade. We see one Fade comfortably defeating a whole group of Borderlanders. Very quickly we see that a country boy with big arms can comfortably defeat one, a small group of Aiel can confidently attack three Fades, ending up that humans can resist an entire battalion of Halfmen at the Last Battle. It is simple power creep - and given the situation of how the books were written I don't think Jordan can criticized too much about this. Their weakness to the One Power also makes their prowess against non-Channellers rather moot anyway.

Hi Leala, Lady! Very nice to be introduced to you both again. I'm Heavy. Heavy by name, not that heavy by nature, though weight gain after becoming forty does mean that no clothes on the surface of this Earth fit me, as my stomach is a good size bigger than anything else. But well, it could be worse, all things considered. Though perhaps the lady doth protest too much... though I am very much a man, however confused my journey through wearing Novice white has been. Nothing wrong about a man curtsying, and wearing a dress, and having pigtails, and mooning over the warders exercising... totally normal. Glad you came with me on that. I'm an Accepted, but have not gotten further as the wave of optimism of meeting you all and being welcomed into your fold has receded and I'm struggling with the very real question of who would want me in their Ajah? Do I deserve to be an Aes Sedai? Perhaps empty questions, but ones that keep me from ever completing my last raising points... However, I do look absolutely killer in my banded Accepted dress, so there is that. I started reading WoT somewhere around the early nineties... I got the first two books out the library then saw the whole trilogy in a bookshop soon after. I later realised (after purchasing) that it wasn't a trilogy, and those paperbacks would be hard used in the coming decades. Never had anyone to share it with (my friends read Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance (something not carried in the local library)) and later at Uni my one Fantasy reading friend gave up on Book 5 as it was too boring. Moving countries and becoming a father interrupted my reading, and it took a long time for me to finish the series. I reread the books, then read the Sanderson entries for the first time and watched the first series of the show just in time to catch the second series launch. Free of the fear of spoilers I also ventured onto the internet to find answers to all the questions I had, only to find that one, most sites were dead, and two, I had no idea what my questions were anymore. I recommend all new readers to use some sort of rudimentary note-taking system. This virginial fumbling online did eventually lead me to find Dragonmount, and a whole bunch of really awesome people, and a few I could have wished that there hands had been cut off at the wrists at birth, if I had been so inclined to violent thoughts. Much later I found some WoT Facebook communities, and forgave the Dragonmount trolls completely. I enjoy the books as they are, as that Jehovas Witness twat (Orson Scott Card, one of my most favourite authors, till I heard what he was saying out of print) says, it is a powerful vision of good and evil. The publicised point of what happens if the saviour doesn't want to be the saviour I found dull, and pretty much unexplored, but the idea of how do you really do good, or evil, without unintentionally helping the other side (the Whitecloaks, the machinations of the Forsaken, etc), was really deep and really affected me as a person. My favourite characters are those that willingly lay their lives down for the cause, the minor characters that know what right is (as opposed to Rand, ooo look at me, I cheated death, ha ha ha, all these years I demanded sympathy because I was destined to die, whereas as it was actually thousands of you peasants. Losers! Creator didn't give you funky new powers, did he? Ha ha ha.) And least favourite is should-have-been-roasted-over-a-hot-fire Cadsuane. Nothing likable about that woman at all. The main thing though is that if I have ever taken a moment to day dream about being in an alternate world from the ages of about 14 to 47, it was in the Westlands that I put myself - whatever strengths or flaws it had, that was where my imagination had been caught. Bosoms and spanking, and indeed the spanking of bosoms, was not what drew me here. Honest.

While the Portal Stones are neat explanation in this case, I think it would be fairer to put that down to the necessary power crescendo that was Jordan was building given that the series may come to an abrupt end at any point. Trollocs started as terrifying, and Fades certain death. Very quickly any number of Fades are seen as little more than an inconvenience. We don't see this effect in any other part of their lives, and Perrin becomes a warrior nearly without equal, despite having nothing more muscles trained at the forge. He has no Flame and Void, no training, no natural apitutude mentioned, the best explanation we get is it is from the wolf within. Against the Shaido, Roland does get the better of him, but Perrin is using weapons he has never used before and cuts his way through any number of Aiel. I suppose you could also use the effect of being a ta'veren as an explanation, but really you still need poetic licence in my humble opinion.

About revealing Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only those intimately close to the Dragon would be able to recognise that. Plus it would seem that in the majority of the lives, Rand was not heralded as the true Dragon Reborn, and each of the soldiers could have drastically different lives. Verin of course already knows. Add in that the memories quickly faded, and their focus would probably be on their own experiences which given all the lives would include a lost Tar'mon Gaiden would probably be fairly traumatic. For Mat and Perrin, that would ruin the story at that point so we just don't get to see their experiences and the knowledge they gained is never directly addressed. Necessary for the plot, sadly. Just like we never see Rand's first trip to the Finns.

A stew does sound good.

Ice peppers and honey cakes? Never thought about themed food before. It is a good idea 🙂

Cat pictures are generally well received. Not sure what the issue is really. Hope everything is OK, she probably is just busy. More making Kaf than scrubbing pots, but you never know what they will have up their sleeve for you.

Just as well it is you doing the poking, Cross Sedai. Delen was most unimpressed the last time I tried that. I have been sending her pics of my cat to get her attention,but it is almost like she has blocked me on every platform. But that would be crazy, who would want to block little old me?

Thank you for elucidating your position. Perhaps now this aside that has nothing to do with WoT can be laid to rest.

There is also the fact that sul'dam is inside the damane's head when they are complete. When being told that you must protect you sul'dam, want to protect your sul'dam, you cannot just pretend to do so until they let their guard down. They are punished until they genuinely want to do what they are told. Their previous identities are washed away because they are told to forget about them. If they get a ribbon for being good, the sul'dam will know if they are genuinely pleased or not, and can be treated accordingly. In reality of course this could lead to some sort of emotional splitting (I think the term is) where parts of the personality are split off to protect the core identity, but in canon I don't think there are many damane that are driven insane and the vast majority are successfully conditioned and trained.

Religious representation and inclusion does not necessitate advocating for human rights abuses. Just as the inclusion of male American actors does mean that you are advocating male infant circumcision. Malaysian culture promotes the type 4 FGM (which is non-surgical, though I don't know exactly what it entails, the medical papers I read were not dealing specifically with this aspect). To blame this on religion, or to exclude Malaysians from such things as casting on WoT, does not seem an effect way of helping young Malaysian women to me. Being in favour of exclusion, whether in grounds of racism, or on grounds of all religion is wrong and only you know the truth, does smack of bigotry. And seeing as the context of the discussion is diverse casting in the Wheel of Time, your antagonism against said inclusion, and support for opinions such as those of Samt, is somewhat confusing if you are wholly in favour of this type of inclusion. Perhaps it is simply your desire to be as unpleasant as possible to people who enjoy the show, but I would advise that if you want to discuss an issue that you state your own opinion as opposed to attacking and mocking those who may have a slightly different from you.

I neither attacked nor defended. I was merely pointing out that FGM and circumcision take place under very different circumstances. I never said you were Christian, I was only enquiring if you thought all other personal faiths should be excluded but yours, which apparently you do, given your anti-religious fervour. Also Christian values are rather hard baked into Western culture, even for those who actively disbelieve in God. Discussing inclusion as regards to WoT does not include organised religion due to the world setting, yet you have made it a major talking point to argue against inclusion as a good thing. I'm an agnostic atheist and have always thought that there could be nothing worse than a close minded militant theist to debate with, but recent experience (elsewhere) has taught me that atheists can just as close minded, aggressive and unreasonable. Which I suppose is understandable, but also rather depressing.

March seemed a long way away when the third series was announced. Not so far now. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me and I'll see what I can do to help.

This is really quite a magical place. A home I never realised existed, until I am now so old and decrepit. My favourite forum? Probably those in which one is not thrown in the moat. Repeatedly and without any cause. Though that admittedly might be just me, the Aes Sedai appear to take great pleasure in my sodden discomfort. I mean I know someone has to clean behind Bob's ears, but still. Other than that, straight up book discussions are the most fun. The show tends to be a bit er, well, bookcloak-y for my tastes too often. A re-watch is a great idea, that I may have to copy in the coming days.

Twisting of words does not make an adequate argument. Extremists of religions, or in the case of FGM, misguided followers (a majority of Muslims in Malaysia think that their Type IV FGM is required by Islam, despite immams telling them it is not), believe in the violation of human rights. Not the moderate mainstream. Male circumcision is totally different kettle of fish which this is not the appropriate forum to dive into, due to mixed messages from the medical world. And that is not a uniquely religious issue, given the US's cultural opinion on the issue. And Samt absolutely does equate inclusion of one thing to the inclusion of another, a prime example of the slippery slope argument made by conservatives about pretty much everything, and in particular about such things as same sex marriage (where does it stop? Can we marry our dishwashers, our cats, our children? Where does this madness end?). You equally equate the inclusion of non-Christian ideas (religious ideas should not be included, according to you) such as circular time with non-therapeutic circumcision, even though this is practiced by certain Christian sects. Inclusion is not difficult to define or understand. You'd like for me to re-read your posts? Ha ha. That is a good one. As I said, if must have been my misunderstanding that I missed your pro-inclusivity and left wing views and your overflowing love of humanity.

Did I say I was in favour of organised religion? And personal religious beliefs can be represented in media without giving any support to extremist views. Or should only your views on spirituality and religion be included in mass media? It is strange how difficult a line it is for you to draw to exclude promoting the violation of people's human rights. I'm glad to hear you fully support the inclusion of race, gender and sexual orientation. That would cover all the relevant points of inclusion as relates to WoT. Strange how despite this support you appear to have been arguing against inclusion all this time. Must have been my misunderstanding.

Inclusion is not about things that are good or bad. It has nothing to do with the judgmental labels that you two appear to want to slap on everything that is different from yourself. Inclusion is just about including people as they are. And where appropriate, that would include religion. WoT itself including so many eastern themes such as the circularity of time could even be said to be inclusive in this respect, and the names that Jordan used take their inspiration from all over the globe. People come in all different colours and orientations and a whole bunch else. Inclusion is about not excluding parts of the world population. It has nothing to do with criminality, or torture, or anything else like that the right wing media continually try to claim so as to reject a pretty straight forward and simple concept. Inclusion is a good thing, exclusion is a bad thing. But I thought we were here to discuss the Wheel of Time? Though it is strange that you two "inclusion is only a good thing in certain circumstances" are also in the "the show is terrible because of bad writing" camp. But certainly not due to any agenda you guys have, no, no, that would be the people that can take some enjoyment out of seeing their favourite book brought to life. Those despicable people are just grinding their political axes all day long. Imagine enjoying things!

Michael Kramer and Kate Reading are really good. I cannot unfortunately compare to Ms Pike as I have not heard her work, but it would be a high accolade indeed to say she was as good as them. Audiobook narrators have ruined experiences for me as well, but I cannot imagine that this would be the case here. Given the rate at which new audiobooks are recorded, I guess waiting for future releases by Ms Pike could be an option, but I don't think you need to go that route unless you really want to.

That isn't what inclusion means. How bigoted do you have to be to compare skin colour or sexual orientation to paedophilia, bestiality and child mutilation?

*whispers* we normally try to keep Mother away from alcohol...

It is simpler than that. Inclusion is always a good thing, nor is it a difficult thing to understand the definition of, however Samt would like to muddy the waters. Having contradictory story elements is always a bad thing - having Magneto played by a Chinese teenager while having the back story of being a Jewish Holocaust survivor, does not come under the heading of inclusion. It is strange how the argument against inclusion is always about continuing a hetero-normative, white, Christian narrative when we are talking about a globally marketed product.

Ah, I see you are disapproving of me, Cross Sedai. That would have been my second guess. I've been very sensible with channelling. Most of the time. It's not like I need to have someone hold my hand all the time. Only when it's scary. Or dark. Otherwise I'm a big gi.. er, boy now.

Thank you! 🥰 It is kind of crazy to suddenly meet so many people that love and know the books so well when you have spent decades not knowing anyone who does. Who knew you could use the internet for such things? Probably most people, I am imagining, but back in the day I just didn't think of it, and then later I was afraid of spoilers as it took me some time to finally getting around to reading the Sanderson books. @HeroAndros is the Sword Captain and can probably tell you more about the Warders. Definitely more than me, I couldn't provide much more information than they like training topless (often while rippling) and have a strange affinity for towels, in my experience, though that might just be Eirik. Aspirants aren't tied to one path until they have taken the appropriate tests, and even then people who genuinely want to change I think are given a lot of freedom. Seeing as I am spamming everyone's inboxes, have you met Mother @Elgee and her Keeper @Cross yet? Perhaps Mother is setting stuff on fire again, and Cross Sedai is probably disapproving of something somewhere, possibly involving aforementioned things on fire.