Rand. He simply just annoys me. :lol:

I think the best plot twists have concerned Rand, as well as the highest moments of tension, but Rand is central to the story, so that should be expected.

I read a few posts that were dismissive of Perrin because he's changed the least of the three, which is true, and it DOES make for some foot-draggin during some of his chapters, yet Rand has become my least favorite Ta'Veren BECAUSE of the changes he's gone through.

He's become absolutely ruthless. He's cold, he's manipulative, he's rude, and he's arrogant. He's beginning to become such a jerk as to remind me of Thomas Covenant, another most unlikable hero. As for Cadsuane's progress at teaching him to remember laughter and tears...phaw!

Perrin's stability actually adds something to him, IMO, by setting him apart from the rest of the crew. Ny, Eg, et al, not just the three ta'veren, have changed dramatically, yet Perrin is refreshingly similar to the young man we met in TEOTW.

All that having been said, I like Mat the best, probably because deep-down, I would love to be a lucky, wealthy womanizer. :twisted:

definitely perrin. great wolf chapters, but GOD FAILE RUINED HIM!!! what a boring guy hes gotten to be. o well, every dog has its day.

Yup. Someone asked if Eggy or any of the girls might not be, and he replied "No, only Mat Perrin and Rand are ta'veren."

 

Also, though, it shows in the text. Three ta'veren at once is unheard of.

 

Where does he do that? The only place I remember him answering a question like that is in his blog, and the answer is not quite what you claim:

 

For ben, of course women can be ta’veren. None of the major female characters in the books is ta’veren, though. The Wheel doesn’t cast ta’veren around indiscriminately. There has to be a specific reason or need. (I tossed in the “major†just to leave you something to argue about.)

 

And what the text says about the weirdness of three ta'veren is that there are three at the same time from the same village, not three at the same time in the entire world.

I'm relatively certain he commented on none of the wonder girls being ta'veren at one stage... specifically on them, and his reply mentioning the lads... that being said you know most of the RJ quotes, so if you say he didn't, i'll fall in line. Nevertheless i have a memory of it. In any case your quote is relatively clear on the issue anyway.

 

On your second point, it is a good point. If you think of it Suine says in the second book that seeing ta'veren is a talent of hers, and the way she says it suggests that she is not just realising this. This suggests to me, now that i think about it, that ta'veren are not as rare as i originally thought, and that she must have at least seen one other..

Well, he might have said something like "Of the main characters, only Rand, Mat and Perrin are ta'veren", since we pretty much know that as a fact.

 

But it's also worth keeping in mind that ta'veren is not something you always are, only when the Wheel needs it. Even if there are no other ta'veren around atm, there's nothing that says there can't have been several around earlier in the series, or that others will pop up later.

But it's also worth keeping in mind that ta'veren is not something you always are, only when the Wheel needs it.

 

Where does it say that? I know the Pattern spins them out as needed, but once a person is born ta'veren, they're ta'veren, period, aren't they?

Where does it say that? I know the Pattern spins them out as needed, but once a person is born ta'veren, they're ta'veren, period, aren't they?

 

RJ has not said anything about that, but considering that people are made ta'veren for a specific purpose, once that purpose is fulfilled it seems quite stupid to have them running around still being ta'veren. It could even possibly be counter-productive if they continue to twist chance once the thing they were made to fix have been fixed.

Hmm. It is interesting that none of the ta'veren references or descriptions seem time specific. Like, Moiraine doesn't say things like, "Those three are ta'veren right now." It seems to be describing a time-independent state, like "Those three are ta'veren." The same way you would say, "Those three are male." I'm not saying thats proof, but it seems indicative, especially in light of all the other consistent references. For example, the Talent of seeing ta'veren is not a Talent of seeing when people are ta'veren, but seeing ta'veren, as if that is a part of their "natural" state. Its a fine line semantically, but that usage of the verb "to be" in English indicates a perpetual or innate state, not a temporary or fluctuating one.

Well, you are correct that none of the inbook descriptions indicate any time specification. But that includes that nothing in the books indicate that you are made ta'veren at a certain point instead of being born as one, that's information we have gotten from RJ directly.

The points you bring up should indicate ta'veren being something you're born as, and since we know that is not the case, they can't be used to indicate whether or not ta'veren is something you can cease to be either.

 

To me it doesn't make sense for someone to remain ta'veren after they have complated their "task". Would the Wheel set up a new need for them, just to avoid the risks of having ta'veren running around twisting fate without control?

But that includes that nothing in the books indicate that you are made ta'veren at a certain point instead of being born as one, that's information we have gotten from RJ directly.

The points you bring up should indicate ta'veren being something you're born as, and since we know that is not the case, they can't be used to indicate whether or not ta'veren is something you can cease to be either.

 

Would you mind finding and posting that quote? I'd like to see it. The impression I always got was that you were born ta'veren, so if RJ said otherwise, well, I guess that would shut me up. :lol:

The Wheel creates ta’veren at need, making someone who is already alive one. You aren’t born ta’veren. Can you imagine being around a ta’veren who is teething? It would be possible for a Darkfriend or Forsaken to be made ta’veren, but it seems unlikely. Ta’veren are part of the Wheel’s self-correcting mechanism. When the Pattern seems to be drifting too quickly, and especially if it is in the wrong direction, one or more ta’veren are created. I can’t really see how making a Darkfriend or Forsaken ta’veren would help with correcting the drift of the Pattern. Ta’veren can oppose one another, when their conflict is what the Wheel “sees†as the necessary corrective. And, no, ta’veren is not Old Tongue for Deus ex machina. It came out of musings on luck, charismatic leaders, and the theory of the indispensable man.

 

Blogpost from october.

You know .... that makes alot of sense .... there's no way those three could have had a remotely normal childhood if they were ta'veren the whole time.

 

 

.... and now, I will cheerfully shut up. :D

I always saw ta'veren-ness as being a degree system.

 

For example, Rand is a major ta'veren, meaning the entire Pattern bends around him. I would also consider Kings, Queens, and Emperors/Emresses ta'veren, though not as strong as the Dragon Reborn.

 

The way I see it, everyone in the world is ta'veren, most people simply aren't a strong enough ta'veren for anyone to notice or care. Everyone, at some point in their life, bends the Pattern slightly to effect the people around them. Rulers bend it a little more, effecting all of their subjects, and the Dragon Reborn is the strongest, effecting the entire world when he's around.

I'd say RJ's explanation shows that you are wrong.

 

Ta'veren is not about occasionally having an affect on the pattern, they are created with a specific purpose.

My least favorite ta'veren is definetly Perrin. Like a lot of you, i like his wolfness.

But I really dislike Faile, and the fact that the only thing that matters to Perrin is Faile. Even if that means he has to work together with the enemy.

 

I'm really sorry, but he goes to far in his 'love' for Faile. Very far.....