These two items are definitely different from other items of power. So, what do you think guys?

I don't see how callandor is different from another sa'angreal. It is an object of the power, created by Aes Sedai during the war of the power, or during the breaking, i don't remember. The Horn, however, seems really apart.

I don't see how callandor is different from another sa'angreal. It is an object of the power, created by Aes Sedai during the war of the power, or during the breaking, i don't remember. The Horn, however, seems really apart.

 

Callandor has connection to the previous lives (Rand & LT) and I believe it was present at the LT attempt to seal DO (in the video game opener it shows LT with it; this was never confirmed but I will ask the question during the book signing tour this year).

LTT never saw Callandor, I'd say. And I would not trust a game. There are likely a bunch of inaccuracies.

 

And what connection to previoys life you're talking about? I don't remember anything. I'll have to reread chapter 25 - 26 of tSR. There are hints about Callandor in it.

LTT never saw Callandor, I'd say. And I would not trust a game. There are likely a bunch of inaccuracies.

 

And what connection to previoys life you're talking about? I don't remember anything. I'll have to reread chapter 25 - 26 of tSR. There are hints about Callandor in it.

 

 

The game was the only game ever made about WoT (i think RJ would be involved in it and something like Callandor is a big thing), but it was never confirmed so it's up for grabs i guess.

 

But about linking to previous lives: we know that Callandor was placed in Tear after LT died. So he was not present at the moment of placement. So how the hell did AS could link a dead man to a future man if a) the dead man was not there and (according to you) never held the thing, b) Callandor just a simple sa'angreal. I can understand that they might make weaves to block everyone getting to it but for the sword to recognize Rand is something else. Plus, forsaken were from the AoL and would have some understanding of the blocking weaves and it was stated that given enough time any weave can be broken (even shielding). So, Callandor is not simple weapon as it not only can recognize a dead man reborn (or made to recognize a dead man reborn) but it was specifically mentioned in prophecies to be central to LB. It it was about raw power than access keys were a lot more important than Callandor.

 

Plus, IMO i think LT did have it with him during his attempt.

I think it was LTT's sword and was converted into a sa angreal after teh backlash thus resulting in the lack of a buffer.

 

I am unsure about how they wove the wards that made it only accessable (safely) by the dragon soul

The soul of the Dragon is one of the most important thing in the Pattern. Maybe the Ward detected an influence of the Pattern. The Dragon trying to grab Callandor shall be something of interest on a Ta'maral'ailen. Lanfear managed to Drill into the Pattern. So a ward reacting on it shall be possible

The soul of the Dragon is one of the most important thing in the Pattern. Maybe the Ward detected an influence of the Pattern. The Dragon trying to grab Callandor shall be something of interest on a Ta'maral'ailen. Lanfear managed to Drill into the Pattern. So a ward reacting on it shall be possible

 

Have to say that I had to look up Ta'maral'ailen , so good one, sir. Yes, Dragon would be of interest but how did they do it. And why Callandor and not Ring of Tamerlyn or access keys or Horn itself? Plus, Callandor is different from other sa'angreals that it does not have buffer and that it requires a man and two women. We never see anything like it before or after.

I don't see how callandor is different from another sa'angreal. It is an object of the power, created by Aes Sedai during the war of the power, or during the breaking, i don't remember. The Horn, however, seems really apart.

 

One of the differences could be that it seems to have the ability to not only withstand balefire, but actually deflect it. As usual, I don't have the actual book on hand, but I remember Ishamael sending a bar of liquid fire at Rand at the end of tDR when Rand is chasing him through the Stone of Tear. I remember Rand reacting to it by slicing it with Callandor, causing the bar to split into two halves, one going above, and one going below (not sure how it could go under him without destroying the ground beneath his feet, but that's what I remember.) Rand turned around and saw the halves wipe out a series of columns inverting them into shimmering motes, and leaving only a momentary after-image.

 

Though, it could be that he channeled some kind of special weave through Callandor that is capable of splitting balefire. Not much is known about how balefire interacts with other weaves, since most people prefer to try dodging it rather than facing it head-on.

Could also be that Callandor is made out of some sort of cuendillar, and that cuendillar, empowered by certain weaves might be able to have that effect.

 

I've always wondered about this scene. I wonder if Elayne + Avhienda + Rand will link in a circle with Callandor, and he'll deflect balefire for them? Could that tie into the "Three shall become one..." prophecy?

 

The soul of the Dragon is one of the most important thing in the Pattern. Maybe the Ward detected an influence of the Pattern. The Dragon trying to grab Callandor shall be something of interest on a Ta'maral'ailen. Lanfear managed to Drill into the Pattern. So a ward reacting on it shall be possible

 

Have to say that I had to look up Ta'maral'ailen , so good one, sir. Yes, Dragon would be of interest but how did they do it. And why Callandor and not Ring of Tamerlyn or access keys or Horn itself? Plus, Callandor is different from other sa'angreals that it does not have buffer and that it requires a man and two women. We never see anything like it before or after.

 

There is nothing special about it like you think. Callandor is just linked in Prophecy, thats what makes it special.

 

Knife of Dreams tour 28 October 2005 - Jason Wolfbrother reporting

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

 

From theoryland database

There is nothing to indicate it was ever LTT sword...the only things tying it to the Dragon Reborn are the prophecies and the wards the Aes Sedai wove about it when placing it in the stone of tear

So just a normal a'angreal. His specificities are a weird ward unheard of since, a place in the Prophecies, and a manufacturing flaw. But it is just a sa'angreal.

 

It's like saying Bela is special because she travelled the world, survived many difficulties, has been duplicated in T'A'R, and didn't suffer any injury since book one, making her better than Rand in surviving in Randland... It doesn't make any sense? I know. Sorry for that :)

 

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

One of the differences could be that it seems to have the ability to not only withstand balefire, but actually deflect it. As usual, I don't have the actual book on hand, but I remember Ishamael sending a bar of liquid fire at Rand at the end of tDR when Rand is chasing him through the Stone of Tear. I remember Rand reacting to it by slicing it with Callandor, causing the bar to split into two halves, one going above, and one going below (not sure how it could go under him without destroying the ground beneath his feet, but that's what I remember.) Rand turned around and saw the halves wipe out a series of columns inverting them into shimmering motes, and leaving only a momentary after-image.

 

Though, it could be that he channeled some kind of special weave through Callandor that is capable of splitting balefire. Not much is known about how balefire interacts with other weaves, since most people prefer to try dodging it rather than facing it head-on.

Could also be that Callandor is made out of some sort of cuendillar, and that cuendillar, empowered by certain weaves might be able to have that effect.

 

I've always wondered about this scene. I wonder if Elayne + Avhienda + Rand will link in a circle with Callandor, and he'll deflect balefire for them? Could that tie into the "Three shall become one..." prophecy?

 

Unfortunately you're remembering wrong. Rand did in fact weave some unknown weave into Callandor causing it to deflect Ishmael's balefire. The balefire was split, by the weave, and cut the pillars to either side of Rand.

The soul of the Dragon is one of the most important thing in the Pattern. Maybe the Ward detected an influence of the Pattern. The Dragon trying to grab Callandor shall be something of interest on a Ta'maral'ailen. Lanfear managed to Drill into the Pattern. So a ward reacting on it shall be possible

 

Have to say that I had to look up Ta'maral'ailen , so good one, sir. Yes, Dragon would be of interest but how did they do it. And why Callandor and not Ring of Tamerlyn or access keys or Horn itself? Plus, Callandor is different from other sa'angreals that it does not have buffer and that it requires a man and two women. We never see anything like it before or after.

 

There is nothing special about it like you think. Callandor is just linked in Prophecy, thats what makes it special.

 

Knife of Dreams tour 28 October 2005 - Jason Wolfbrother reporting

 

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

 

From theoryland database

 

I see.... well than... thanks for shattering one man's dream!

The Pattern needed Callandor to have a manufactoring flaw; other then that, its really just a defective product that someone in the Age of Legends probably cared less about.

I rather think the Pattern used Callandor as part of it because of that flaw. The nuance is thin, but there is a nuance :)

One of the differences could be that it seems to have the ability to not only withstand balefire, but actually deflect it. As usual, I don't have the actual book on hand, but I remember Ishamael sending a bar of liquid fire at Rand at the end of tDR when Rand is chasing him through the Stone of Tear. I remember Rand reacting to it by slicing it with Callandor, causing the bar to split into two halves, one going above, and one going below (not sure how it could go under him without destroying the ground beneath his feet, but that's what I remember.) Rand turned around and saw the halves wipe out a series of columns inverting them into shimmering motes, and leaving only a momentary after-image.

 

Though, it could be that he channeled some kind of special weave through Callandor that is capable of splitting balefire. Not much is known about how balefire interacts with other weaves, since most people prefer to try dodging it rather than facing it head-on.

Could also be that Callandor is made out of some sort of cuendillar, and that cuendillar, empowered by certain weaves might be able to have that effect.

 

I've always wondered about this scene. I wonder if Elayne + Avhienda + Rand will link in a circle with Callandor, and he'll deflect balefire for them? Could that tie into the "Three shall become one..." prophecy?

 

Unfortunately you're remembering wrong. Rand did in fact weave some unknown weave into Callandor causing it to deflect Ishmael's balefire. The balefire was split, by the weave, and cut the pillars to either side of Rand.

 

I see... Thanks for clearing that up!

Though it's dissappointing that Callandor isn't as special as I thought. Now I'm interested in the weaves used. So far we've really only seen BF interact with 2 weaves: other BF, and this unknown weave. Both times the effect or efficacy of the BF was critically changed...

Edited October 6, 201015 yr by Brandon Ross

I rather think the Pattern used Callandor as part of it because of that flaw. The nuance is thin, but there is a nuance :)

 

yes i think so,too; and also: the flaw of callandor has also some benefits:

 

1. there is no buffer => you can draw as much of the OP as you want (destroying yourself in the process, but still a very powerful tool if you know you die anyway and just need a LOT of the power...)

 

2. cadsuane said something like: "...it also increases the madnes ... " [i dont have the books here, plz correct me if im wrong here]; this could mean that you not only suffer the taint from saidin but also form another source; if that is so there would be a possibilety to have an amplifier not only for saidin but for the TP, too....

 

=> linked with 2 women (avi+ el [perhaps both using angreal/sa'angreal]) and Rand (not a woman !) guiding the flowes he would have the possibilty to weave all 3 powers (saidar/din +tp) on a massive scale (killing himself in the process ofcourse, but that is to be expected anyway)

 

i hope i`m not totaly wrong here :P (please excuse my poor english, i did not have to write in english in some time ;) )

Edited October 6, 201015 yr by Sartyva

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

 

That's one of the reasons I won't believe the Horn is from before the AoL. Putting a stamp on a priceless artifact? It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

Edited October 6, 201015 yr by Silver

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

 

That's one of the reasons I won't believe the Horn is from before the AoL. Putting a stamp on a priceless artifact? It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

 

there is also the possibilety of the old tounge being akin to something like latin. It was once a language used by a dominating culture and was replaced by a common tounge over the time, but is still used in some circles.

 

in the third age its use has been reduced to a few phrases here and there and only very few can speak it fluently (like in our time, where it is only used regulary for some terms in medicine etc. ...)

 

in the age of legends it could have been like in the early mediaeval times, where the language was know too more people but has only been used by people of a certain standing, while the majority develops the common tounge

(iirc: all terms used in the old tounge linking it to the AOL have been from the viewpoint of a noble or an AS [like Mats rambling of the OT {aCoS, 21, Birgitte to Mat:

"One sentence, you’re an Eharoni High Prince and the next a First Lord of Manetheren, accent and idiom perfect."

])

 

and the origin of the old tounge could be set into the first Age where it was used by everyone in the then dominating culture

Edited October 6, 201015 yr by Sartyva

It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

 

Indeed.

 

The guards. Bulletproof glass shielding. Can´t be done.

Unfortunately you're remembering wrong. Rand did in fact weave some unknown weave into Callandor causing it to deflect Ishmael's balefire. The balefire was split, by the weave, and cut the pillars to either side of Rand.

 

Unless this was confirmed by RJ, Brandon or Maria without my knowing, that's not certain. The three options, as I recall, are...

 

1. Despite the similarities in description, what Ishamael wove was not balefire.

 

2. That Callandor was cuendillar, and deflected the balefire that way.

 

3. Rand came up with a new weave, as you say.

 

I'm a fan of the third option--Rand achieves previously impossible things with Callandor at other times, like the Shadowspawn Storm--but this is not certain, unless of course there is information I'm missing.

Unfortunately you're remembering wrong. Rand did in fact weave some unknown weave into Callandor causing it to deflect Ishmael's balefire. The balefire was split, by the weave, and cut the pillars to either side of Rand.

 

Unless this was confirmed by RJ, Brandon or Maria without my knowing, that's not certain. The three options, as I recall, are...

 

1. Despite the similarities in description, what Ishamael wove was not balefire.

 

2. That Callandor was cuendillar, and deflected the balefire that way.

 

3. Rand came up with a new weave, as you say.

 

I'm a fan of the third option--Rand achieves previously impossible things with Callandor at other times, like the Shadowspawn Storm--but this is not certain, unless of course there is information I'm missing.

 

Bah. I was going to say this! /pout

Why did the AoLer put that sentence on the Horn? And why this one? Has it been used many times in a turning? Or rather seldomly?

 

That's one of the reasons I won't believe the Horn is from before the AoL. Putting a stamp on a priceless artifact? It'd be like writing "Bob was here." on the Mona Lisa. You just don't do it.

 

It was more than just a stamp. It told the person what the object was for. To summon the dead. Not exactly instructions, but an indication.

 

In any case, dont believe all you want, it was made before AoL and inscription added in AoL.

 

 

JordanCon 24 April 2010 - Terez reporting

 

Tamyrlin: Is the Horn an object of the Power?

Maria: RAFO, but I will tell you something about the Horn. People always ask why the inscription on the Horn is in the Old Tongue, if it’s so old. It was added in the Age of Legends.

 

TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

 

Week 1 Question: Was the Horn of Valere known and used in the Age of Legends? Or did it only appear in the Third Age?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: The Horn of Valere was known in the Age of Legends, though it was an artifact of an earlier age, but it was never used in the Age of Legends. In part, this was because there wasn't any need in an Age that knew universal peace, but also it was because what it could do was considered a sort of myth by most people in that Age. No one who is serious spends time trying to test out whether a myth might be real. (Seen anybody sacrificing a white bull to Jupiter lately?) And once the Dark One touched the world, before the War of the Shadow actually began, the Horn was among the items lost, and thought destroyed, in the first rush of mob violence, terrorism etc. So it wasn't available for use then even had someone wanted to try. It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

In any case, the story of the Horn was carried on through the Age of Legends in the same way that myths are today, and magnified thereafter though the twisting that occurs in the telling and retelling of a story. And believe me, stories about the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies and everything concerned with them were rife during the Breaking. When everything is going to hell around them, people cling to anything and everything that might offer hope. That is how the Breaking could end with tales of the Dragon Reborn and the Prophecies already on many peoples' lips.

 

all quotes from theoryland database. https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcjspjqg_73dz7wfhgt

^

 

The language at the end of the First Age could be the same as that in the Age of Legends, so its possible the Horn was created with the inscription. The Portal Stones would be another type of item from that era that's just kinda weird and different from everything else, also.