Ogier all the way. Long life, on par with an Aes Sedai, and the possibility of some supernatural powers of my own. I also love nature, books, and history. And could learn to carry a massive axe around with me, Gardener style.

It just boggles my mind that Ishy aka Moridin has become the favorite character for some of the fans. Yes, Moridin is a very interesting and fascinating character. But is there any doubt that Moridin is Robert Jordan's chief villain meant to stop The Dragon Reborn from defeating the Dark One?

Please remember, in some of his interviews and blogs where he was questioned about Ishy/Moridin, Robert Jordan said that

"Ishamael is a lying liar that lies... and you believe him?"

 

I actually kinda like Moridin. Just because he is a villian doesn´t mean that he can´t be my favourite. If you have the view that breaking the wheel will break the pattern of circular time then I say, Go Moridin. And I also believe that the Dark One can never win, and that Moridin is having a flawed idea when he thinks that the Dark One can utterly crush the Wheel. Maybe give it a crack but the Creator will balance things out, she will create anew. I also love Rand, and the thought of one killing the other is kinda sad... lol. Rand is the ying to Moridin´s yang. =P

It just boggles my mind that Ishy aka Moridin has become the favorite character for some of the fans. Yes, Moridin is a very interesting and fascinating character. But is there any doubt that Moridin is Robert Jordan's chief villain meant to stop The Dragon Reborn from defeating the Dark One?

 

Ah, I see. Dont like the bad guy coz hes bad!

 

Get a grip man. Its fantasy. To like a character is not to make the same moral choices of said character.

 

Please remember, in some of his interviews and blogs where he was questioned about Ishy/Moridin, Robert Jordan said that

"Ishamael is a lying liar that lies... and you believe him?"

 

Damnit I liked Ishamael for his honesty! I suppose Galad has to be my favorite character now eh?

 

Why would I need you to remind me Ishamael is a liar when I have the books? The RJ quote was unnecessary, it is obvious.

It just boggles my mind that Ishy aka Moridin has become the favorite character for some of the fans. Yes, Moridin is a very interesting and fascinating character. But is there any doubt that Moridin is Robert Jordan's chief villain meant to stop The Dragon Reborn from defeating the Dark One?

Please remember, in some of his interviews and blogs where he was questioned about Ishy/Moridin, Robert Jordan said that

"Ishamael is a lying liar that lies... and you believe him?"

That would be them tricky little things called opinions.Why CAN'T he be my favorite character (that would be Demandred for me) ?

Yeah, he wants to destroy the wheel but that's because he arrived at a different conclusion than Rand did.

first of all, great villains are great characters. what's mash without frank burns, or charles winchester, or lost in space without doctor smith, or doctor who without the master, or scratchy without itchy?

 

second of all, moridin has the crazy eyes, and the crazy eyes are always deadly attractive.

 

i love moridin, though i do not love evil. as noted, he is a fictional character in a fantasy novel. if i hated all the evil characters, i would hate more than half the books, and i wouldn't read them anymore.

 

i still think moridin may go light. he's a thinker, and thinking will lead you to the light eventually.

Moridin is definitely one of my favs. Villains are fun. I think he might go light at the end, though, but I'd be pretty mad if that happened before an epic battle vs. Rand.

I know that Ishy/Moridin is a great villain. I appreciate and enjoy reading stories and scenes with great villains. Every great fantasy story needs a great villain. Every scene that has had Baal'zaman aka Ishamael aka Moridin in the scene has always been very interesting, fascinating and enjoyable to read. I do not hate any of the characters in any of the novels I have ever read in my life. To me, it is just a bit foolish to hate a fictional character.

 

However, I just cannot understand why some would say Ishamael/Moridin is your favorite character as opposed to the heroes of the WOT series. Do you want the villains to win in the WOT story?

Apparently there just might be some here who do.

um, yeah, i understand that much better in the big font. (i sort of meant that to be snarky at first, but actually, that size font is much easier on my old eyes - just a suggestion for DM9 )

 

i love moridin. i don't want the dark one to win the last battle. it's ok that we don't have the same opinion. i can totally understand how moridin might not a favorite character for anyone else. i can also understand that even if he is a favorite character for someone else, that that person might still want the good guys to win. i accept the fact that you don't understand that, and i'm moving on.

 

peace to you and yours.

I know that Ishy/Moridin is a great villain. I appreciate and enjoy reading stories and scenes with great villains. Every great fantasy story needs a great villain. Every scene that has had Baal'zaman aka Ishamael aka Moridin in the scene has always been very interesting, fascinating and enjoyable to read. I do not hate any of the characters in any of the novels I have ever read in my life. To me, it is just a bit foolish to hate a fictional character.

 

However, I just cannot understand why some would say Ishamael/Moridin is your favorite character as opposed to the heroes of the WOT series. Do you want the villains to win in the WOT story?

Apparently there just might be some here who do.

A villain is most of the times more fascinating than the hero he faces.You don't have to agree with someone's ideology to be a fan, though it helps.

('k, just slipping back in for a second to clarify - i'm a fan of the author, not the characters. . . cause they're not people, and they don't really have their own ideologies. . . they're just more or less enjoyable as characters to me. backing on out again, 'scuse the interruption.)

Moridin is a very interesting villain (Ishamael not so much, especially in tEotW). In fact, Moridin so far saves the Forsaken from being the most pathetic villains in fantasy...

 

And RJ said once (if I recall) that the greatest thing the Greeks had done for western civilisation was the idea of linear time.

 

Personally I find Eichhörnchen's points interesting, but I would not agree with them now (maybe a few years ago)

 

If life is generally good, why is life repeated automatically bad?

 

It is often said that life's worth comes because our time is limited. When you don't get a second chance, every choice you make becomes final, every chance you miss remains missed forever.

 

But we don't really know whether life would really seem less worth living if it wasn't so fragile, because the eternity is something we simply can't imagine or understand. We also can't really imagine the ever-repeating cycle.

 

Also, the whole worth of life does not necessarily flow exlusively from progress, change and evolution - it flows also from what is stable, timeless and unchanging.

 

And it is worth noting that our present scientific understanding of the universe may in fact be closer to the cyclical, not linear vision. Since the universe will eventually "die", so will all life, regardless of the level of technology achieved. Who knows, maybe another universe will be born afterwards and all will start again?

 

Maybe I just prefer a happy hamster forever running in his wheel over a cold, dead nothingness.

For me this was not a hard choise. Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah. It would be wonderful to do magic and at the same time dedicate my life to knowledge.

 

(Btw Moridin is one of my favorite characters. Not Balzamon or Ishy - just Moridin.)

um, yeah, i understand that much better in the big font. (i sort of meant that to be snarky at first, but actually, that size font is much easier on my old eyes - just a suggestion for DM9 )

 

 

Slightly bigger than normal font is easier for my old eyes to read, also. I am 46, and its annoying for me to have to read nothing but small fonts.

 

i love moridin. i don't want the dark one to win the last battle. it's ok that we don't have the same opinion. i can totally understand how moridin might not a favorite character for anyone else. i can also understand that even if he is a favorite character for someone else, that that person might still want the good guys to win. i accept the fact that you don't understand that, and i'm moving on.

 

peace to you and yours.

 

 

Does Ishy/Moridin want for the DO to win the last battle? Or does he have his own agenda in which he is trying to find some way to stop the DO from winning while at the same time prevent the Dragon Reborn do what he has been prophesied to do at this current Last Battle versus the Dark One?

The answers to those questions shall determine for me as to whether or not Ishy/Moridin is someone I want to root for in AMOL.

 

 

peace and long life to you and yours.

i just realized i never explained my vote, which was the thread topic.

 

if i had to choose, i'd be a wisdom, so i could take care of my family, and friends, and neighbors, and livestock and land in our little part of the world, as best i could. i would not want to go out into the greater world if it could be helped. small things still need to be taken care of, even when the world flies to pieces. and someone would have to be there to pick up the pieces that were left and try to keep them safe and make a new beginning. that's what i'd want to do.

I thought about this for a bit. Warders are cool, magic-weilders are cool, rulers are cool, but who needs the headaches and dangers and misery? As an innkeeper, I get to sleep in my own bed every night, eat hot food, meet new people and hear all the news and gossip.

I would definitely be a Forsaken. But not in the conventional way. I would be a mix of Asmodean, Demandred (my favorite) and Moridin.

 

1. Asmodean - I would help the Light in various ways. I would betray the DO in the end, even if it earns me the final death. I'd cut the bonds that tie me to the DO like Rand did.

 

2. Demandred. Whatever he has or has not done in the series is irrelevant. IN the AoL he was the second greatest man behind LTT. He has some crazy knowledge and that would be most useful.

 

3. Moridin - Mainly for his "morals" (ha!). He is not out there because he is evil like Semirhage was. He is crazy and cruel at times, but he isnt truly evil. Just sick of life.

 

 

So I'd be a mixture. Be a Forsaken with a tonne of knowledge and power. Use that power to strike down the farce that is the White Tower and teach the world a lesson. Betray the DO once I have sorted some of the arrogant fools out with a couple of Trolloc hordes, and use the knowledge to seal help fight and seal the DO away again hoping to hell i dont die before he is sealed and he cant reach my thread afterwards.

 

It may sound crazy and suicidal, but for the greater good, I would do it. I would need to start off for the Shadow, to accomplish some things, such as whipping the Seanchan into shape so they are not monsters. Teach the White Tower the meaning of Aes Sedai and stop this pretentious sexism against men. Have a look at the inner workings of the DO's plans and DF's, so I could use the knowledge against him (kinda like verin).

 

Then, having done that, join the Light. Probably want to execute me, but I would give them information in any case. Do the most I could to help out.

 

I would most likely be branded evil and one crazy bastard. But I would have lived at least accomplishing something worthwhile, even if the means are less than desireable.

Moridin is a very interesting villain (Ishamael not so much, especially in tEotW). In fact, Moridin so far saves the Forsaken from being the most pathetic villains in fantasy...

 

And RJ said once (if I recall) that the greatest thing the Greeks had done for western civilisation was the idea of linear time.

 

Personally I find Eichhörnchen's points interesting, but I would not agree with them now (maybe a few years ago)

 

If life is generally good, why is life repeated automatically bad?

 

It is often said that life's worth comes because our time is limited. When you don't get a second chance, every choice you make becomes final, every chance you miss remains missed forever.

 

But we don't really know whether life would really seem less worth living if it wasn't so fragile, because the eternity is something we simply can't imagine or understand. We also can't really imagine the ever-repeating cycle.

 

Also, the whole worth of life does not necessarily flow exlusively from progress, change and evolution - it flows also from what is stable, timeless and unchanging.

 

And it is worth noting that our present scientific understanding of the universe may in fact be closer to the cyclical, not linear vision. Since the universe will eventually "die", so will all life, regardless of the level of technology achieved. Who knows, maybe another universe will be born afterwards and all will start again?

 

Maybe I just prefer a happy hamster forever running in his wheel over a cold, dead nothingness.

 

 

You will however never advance or progress past a certain point. It would be the equivalent of going through the bronze age, then the iron age, then the dark ages and then the medieval times. Only to land back in the bronze age. You can never bring about the full potential of humanity in any shape or form as long as existence follows a circular law of time. This might not bother a simpleton farmer, but I can imagine it must infuriate someone as highly intelligent, well-educated and intelligent such as Ishamael was during his lifetime. It's as if the universe conspired to form an anti-intellectual movement with the sole goal of enslaving humanity to a certain technological level, making sure they can never progress beyond that.

I know that Ishy/Moridin is a great villain. I appreciate and enjoy reading stories and scenes with great villains. Every great fantasy story needs a great villain. Every scene that has had Baal'zaman aka Ishamael aka Moridin in the scene has always been very interesting, fascinating and enjoyable to read. I do not hate any of the characters in any of the novels I have ever read in my life. To me, it is just a bit foolish to hate a fictional character.

 

However, I just cannot understand why some would say Ishamael/Moridin is your favorite character as opposed to the heroes of the WOT series. Do you want the villains to win in the WOT story?

Apparently there just might be some here who do.

 

 

Possibly because Ishamael/Moridin seems one of the few true intellectual, intelligent and deep characters in the novel. It's a shame there are not more points of views of his character or about his character.

 

He seems in the novel among the only who seems intent on bringing about a change to an antiquated and rather perverted system. Even Rand only does his role because "destiny chose him," or "because he has a responsibility." A marionette forced into a role that was predetermined. At least with Ishamael there is finally a character who follows a path intent on changing existence itself, through his eyes in an unselfish sacrificial manner for the better. He is not driven by hate, greed, lunacy, sadism or powerlust such as other Forsaken who are stereotyped villains. He seems to harbor no illusions as to where his course of action is leading and his sole apprehension was when Rand insisted he could permanently defeat the DO, it probably got him to harbor the thoughts of possibly allowing the DO to destroy the Wheel (his prison) however be eliminated before destroying/unraveling existence itself.

 

I quite believe his path or where it leads is among the most interesting in the novel. Even if in the end it all leads to naught and his dreams/ambitions die with him as he lay dying murdered by some goatherders sons on the rocks of some mountain.

 

 

 

Possibly because Ishamael/Moridin seems one of the few true intellectual, intelligent and deep characters in the novel. It's a shame there are not more points of views of his character or about his character.

 

I agree. That is one of the reasons he is one of the best villains in all of fantasy in my opinion.

 

He seems in the novel among the only who seems intent on bringing about a change to an antiquated and rather perverted system. Even Rand only does his role because "destiny chose him," or "because he has a responsibility." A marionette forced into a role that was predetermined.

 

Apparently, you do not remember Rand not only telling everyone around him multiple times that he is bringing change, but you might have also missed the many changes that Rand al`Thor has already done or caused to happen. I am not going to list those changes for you, because if you have read the series through more than once, then you ought to know already what some of those changes are to which I am referring.

 

At least with Ishamael there is finally a character who follows a path intent on changing existence itself, through his eyes in an unselfish sacrificial manner for the better.

 

You believe that what Ishamael is trying to accomplish would be for the better. However, I am willing to bet anyone here all of my money and possessions that Robert Jordan himself most likely disagrees with your opinion, Eichnornchen. Now, of course I know that I am not going to change your belief and opinions about the world of the WOT and the philosophical underpinnings of the metaphysics of that world. I doubt that Robert Jordan, if he were still alive, would be able to change your beliefs about this. However, since in that fictional world and universe of the WOT, I believe that this cyclical time and that the Wheel is probably necessary in order for the continuing existence of the that world and that universe. Therefore, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, agreeably, about this topic.

 

He is not driven by hate, greed, lunacy, sadism or powerlust such as other Forsaken who are stereotyped villains.

 

Baalzaman/Ishamael/Moridin may not be driven by hate or lunacy, but he was most certainly influenced by his own insanity and hatred.

 

He seems to harbor no illusions as to where his course of action is leading and his sole apprehension was when Rand insisted he could permanently defeat the DO, it probably got him to harbor the thoughts of possibly allowing the DO to destroy the Wheel (his prison) however be eliminated before destroying/unraveling existence itself.

 

You believe that Ishamael wants to bring the world and the universe of the WOT to linear time, instead of cyclical time as seen in the 7 Ages of time as described by Robert Jordan, .... correct?

 

From our own real life point of view, that is a very reasonable and even commendable goal which Ishamael has. However, in the world and universe of the Wheel of Time series, ... is linear time even possible? I do not know for sure the answer to that question. My opinion is that the answer is .... No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought about this for a bit. Warders are cool, magic-weilders are cool, rulers are cool, but who needs the headaches and dangers and misery? As an innkeeper, I get to sleep in my own bed every night, eat hot food, meet new people and hear all the news and gossip.

 

Don't forget brew your own beer/ale, cider and wine..

Win Win!

.. be a morath'Raken, go rogue and fly around world to see things, to do things and impress fair damsels with my Raken which will be F.Y.I. named 'Bear'.

I voted for Ogier since they live for a long time and don't too much but gain knowledge BUT cmon magic is pretty epic. I wouldn't want taint though so depends on where abouts.

Being a guy, it has to be Asha'man! I wouldn't want to be the Dragon, but learning how to channel during peace-time would be fun!

Does no one else find it hilarious that it says "if you had to choose" but then the poll is multi-selectable checkboxes? =)

I want to be and Aiel, Asha'man and a Warder. After the Taint of course. But can you only be a DF if you are a Forsaken?